Gay Marriage Unconstitutional?

[FoJaR]

Originally Posted by Squeek

Anti-gay marriagers: Who are you to come between the love of two individuals you don't even know?

not coming between their love, they are free to love.

It's quite natural for people who love each other to want to have benefits and status as a married couple. That's pretty much what a marriage is all about. A Civil Union does not cut it. When people ask you for your status, there's single, married, or divorced. There's no "civil-unioned".

If two people love each other, let them get married. The only thing I'm hesitant to allow is person -> animal marriages. That's just weird.

soon people will be marrying their right hand for the tax breaks.

[MalReynolds]

Originally Posted by FoJaR

not coming between their love, they are free to love.



soon people will be marrying their right hand for the tax breaks.

That's the same arguement that the insane right uses. "If you let gays get married, soon we'll let people marry dogs!"

Some people, believe it or not, do not want to be married for the tax breaks. Sure, give them a seperate word. But keep it equal, right?

If everyone is granted the same "God given" rights, as per said in the constitution, then how come people of the same sex cannot get married to each other? Or hell, even "Civilly Unionized?"

I mean, "Civil Union" makes it so dem ******s can't get married, but gives them equal rights and a seperate word.

But that's not discrimination based off of creed, race or preference. So, no. No second class citizens.

[FoJaR]

if i were gay, gay marriage would be legal already.

i'm done arguing.

it's a religious thing, you guys would never understand it.

[GuidoHunter]

Originally Posted by MalReynolds

That's the same arguement that the insane right uses. "If you let gays get married, soon we'll let people marry dogs!"

I actually don't think that this slippery slope is entirely unfeasible.

With the way trial lawyers are today, I can see someone complaining that his right to be happy is being violated when the state tells him he can't marry his dog. After all, whom is he hurting?

With the right lawyer and the right judge in front of him, it would only take one person. ONE person out of over three hundred million to present the right case to the right person, and it's suddenly okay.

We could try to make laws against it, but again, the right judges could just rule those laws unconstitutional.

Then it's people trying to marry their six-year-old neighbor or daughter.

It's a stretch, I know, but I do think that it's possible. All it takes is one.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

[Afrobean]

Ok, so rather than a Consitutional amendment defining marriage as between specifically a man and a woman, make an amendment defining marriage as between two people.

Problem solved 100%-ly and everyone is happy.

Except the people wanna **** animals, I guess.

[jamuko]

The easy counter to the dog/six-year-old thing is that:

1. A dog cannot legally give consent.
2. A six-year-old cannot legally give consent.
3. A gay person can.

[Afrobean]

Isn't the law for being married around the age of majority in most states? Isn't the lowest it goes around 14?

They're not going to go "oh ur right u shud be able to marry toddlers lol we will change that law rite now".

[kilroysd]

-my stand-
if they love each other and really want to get married, let them.

as long as they aren't affecting my life i dont see why i should care.

[Kilgamayan]

Originally Posted by FoJaR

marriage is the union of one man and one woman.

I have already questioned the legitimacy of this definition in terms of objectivity, among other things. Please explain to me why this is a be-all, end-all, unchangable definition of marriage.

Originally Posted by FoJaR

1. America.

America also once thought slavery was a damn fine idea. America's mind is not closed to changing.

Originally Posted by FoJaR

soon people will be marrying their right hand for the tax breaks.

- You can't possibly tell me there isn't a single straight marriage in America that's in it for the money.
- If two people are willing to ostracize themselves from a good chunk of society by publicly proclaiming homosexuality just for a few bucks, I say let 'em.

Originally Posted by FoJaR

if i were gay, gay marriage would be legal already.

You seem to think pretty highly of yourself in terms of political and governmental influence.

Originally Posted by FoJaR

it's a religious thing, you guys would never understand it.

It has already been pointed out that religion has zero place in this particular argument.

Originally Posted by GuidoHunter

Then it's people trying to marry their six-year-old neighbor or daughter.

It's a stretch, I know, but I do think that it's possible. All it takes is one.

Age of consent laws will kick in for the six-year-old part. As for incest at any age, there is a legitimate moral argument against it involving the potential production of psychological problems within the family so a motion for the legalization of it would likely never get passed.

[GuidoHunter]

jamuko, Kilga:

Originally Posted by GuidoHunter

We could try to make laws against it, but again, the right judges could just rule those laws unconstitutional.

That's the problem is suits going to the right judges who can circumvent the will of the people and turn down such laws.

The only surefire way around it is what Afro mentioned, but good luck getting an amendment passed.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

[CypherToorima]

After reading this thread, I have lost any and all respect I had for FoJaR. I'm not sure if that means much to anyone, but I thought I'd point that out.

[Silvuh]

Originally Posted by Proposition 2

SECTION 1. Article I, Texas Constitution, is amended by adding Section 32 to read as follows:

Sec. 32. (a) Marriage in this state shall consist only of the union of one man and one woman.
(b) This state or a political subdivision of this state may not create or recognize any legal status identical or similar to marriage.
SECTION 2. . .

(Of course, those weren't bold in the proposition, but that's just something you can't miss.)
Proposition 2 passed by Texas voters on November 8, 2005 by approximately 76% Yes, 24% No.
xxxxx I probably haven't looked enough into this subject yet to have a reasonable, opinionated argument, but I can say this: the age of consent ranges from 16-18 in the U.S. Marriageable age is generally 18, usually only going lower with parental consent (14-year-olds can not get married without parental consent anywhere in the U.S.)

Post script: If you need some comic relief on the subject... http://idrewthis.org/comics/idt20060329equality.png
Post-post script: I wonder if Canda has ever made a big deal of this whole thing. I would rather be living in British Columbia than Texas...

[talisman]

Slippery slope is completely laughable... tell that to Canada, Spain, South Africa. Yeah. Lots of legal bestiality there. Marriage is about people, not any old entity.

[GuidoHunter]

Suehappy America and its crazies has a lot better chance of its happening than in those countries.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

[ckj846]

Ok, I think I really just had to say something here. Again, people get pissed off at me all the time for using this comparison but I will use it again because it really does effectively portray my point. Sexual orientation is like your race/ethnicity. You are born with it and you cant' do anything to change it. I already had this debate with people, but the thing is, I am a homosexual and I have known my whole life that I was a homosexual. There is no Ifs, Buts, OH MAYBE's. I know what I know and I have the most credibility here (other then the other homosexuals). Now that that is settled, how can a government deny the rights to something that people cannot even control? That is like the government saying that all Mexicans are denied the right to marry because their children will be sterile or all Asians are not allowed to go to libraries because the government feels they are too smart. It is ludicrous. It really is. From my perspective, the Christian institutions are taking advantage of their leverage in government, whether you would like to admit it or not. I am still confused at how stupid people could be over this topic because IT DOESN'T EVEN EFFECT THEIR LIVES AT ALL. So what if you feel like homosexuals are sinners and they are going to hell because they dont' like the opposite sex? That is damned nosy and rude if you ask me. It is none of your damn business. Homosexuals are people too, and they deserve the rights that are given to every single citizen. Marriage is a union of two people who love each other and want to spend the rest of their lives together with each other. Love doesn't HAVE TO factor into the equation, but is does 99% of the time. Point is, we need to get over the fact that the Bible says marriage is between a man and a woman and become a truly tolerant country by allowing gays to marry.

Sorry my thoughts are really jumbled right now, I'm kinda tired.
O_o

[Laharl]

Shash and Grandia:

If I ever reach a point where I start to groan at the childishness of the people I'm talking to (which happens quite easily when I'm simply pointing things out and they start to draw illogical links to things that somehow "defeat my argument"), I stop fighting.

You aren't worth my time, and you're definitely not worth a headache. Go ahead and gloat all you want about your supposed VICTOLY, because you guys have repeatedly proven to me that you will never back down regardless. In case you didn't know, I am not against gay marriage. I go against my church on this fact. I simply am not in favor of gay marriage, at the same time. I personally feel I'm trying to take a middle ground that makes sense to me. You have shown you don't wish to hear it; therefore, I withdraw.

Congratulations, "you have won." Go buy yourself a cake and pat yourselves on the back.

[GuidoHunter]

Originally Posted by ckj846

Sexual orientation is like your race/ethnicity. You are born with it and you cant' do anything to change it.

Uh, you can't say that for certain.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

[ckj846]

Except I'm a homosexual and I've known since I hit puberty and I knew what my sexuality was.
O_o

[GuidoHunter]

Anecdotal evidence is not proof for an entire population, though. Nobody knows for sure what the cause of homosexuality is.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

[ckj846]

Then ask every single homosexual person that you know and they'll give you the same answer.

By the way, I found this interesting. Slightly off topic but on topic at the same time.

http://mindprod.com/religion/wasjesusgay.html

I think the author of that clearly knows what he/she is talking about in that piece and I think it is highly credible. I'm not Christian so I wouldn't know.
O_o