Should the FFR Official Tournament Only Use New Files?

[Rapta]

Re: Should the FFR Official Tournament Only Use New Files?

What I would PREFER is to have new files entirely.

What may be necessary at this point is a mixture, even though I hate the idea.

[psychoangel691]

Re: Should the FFR Official Tournament Only Use New Files?

I don't mean to hijack this thread by going too far off onto a tangent, but I think that, as a whole, the mass of submissions that are still pending judgement could cover the greater part of what would be at most 7x10 slots, and that slots at either end of the difficulty spectrum can be specifically filled if needed as per usual. It's just that the ratio of the amount of effort it takes to process and accept content for the game to the ratio that it takes simply to create that content is so monstrous that it has historically reflected in backups and lateness and now in this case stagnation. I simply don't think that the current process under a reduction in activity can persist; in fact, it already has ceased, and that doesn't bode well for organizing activity-producing events such as the official tournament. But I know that it's a quite inopportune time to implement or even contemplate such drastic changes given the calamity of recent events.

You would be surprised how difficult it is to fill in the slots with files of appropriate difficulty even with a ton of submitted files. There always tends to be a lot of files condensed in a certain difficulty area it seems. Easier files are almost impossible to come by. So even with all the backlog, I bet you we couldn't fill the slots needed.

When it comes to things being backlogged in the first place unfortunately it just happened. There just haven't been enough active judges and I know they're working to fix that. As of right now I'm just trying to make sure I can keep events moving smoothly along regardless of the situation.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but official last year was late September right?
Anyway it seemed to me as a spectator last year that the new files made everything look so much nicer to me as a person who hadn't been on the site in quite a while.
It makes it look like the community cares a lot about the official to people who may be like me who haven't been on the site in a long time.

It wasn't supposed to be, it was supposed to be in the summer. It was held up due to not having enough files of the correct difficulties to fill slots. This is a problem even when things aren't backed up every tournament. Now that it is backed up it could be even worse. I'm projecting late September but it could go beyond that depending how fast everything gets cleared up and if we can hold special batches to fill in the lower and the extremely high area because there are always files missing in those ranges.

Summer is the preferred time for the tournament because people are out of school and generally have more free time.

There is always an option of reducing "Songs of the Week" to "Song" of the week, to help accelerate the growth of the back-log. Is that a feasible idea?

Really this wouldn't make a difference if the files don't fit in specific difficulties. The problem is with the system being backed up we can't hold the special batches we'd need to in order to gain the difficulty ranges we'd need.

Right now all I can do is get with game management and see what in queue would fit into the tournament and see what's still missing and go from there. I'm not really sure where things are as of right now with getting new judges and getting things rolling. I'll get with them over the weekend if they're available.

[psychoangel691]

Re: Should the FFR Official Tournament Only Use New Files?

I'd say probably the best option would be to use files in game up until the prize rounds. Then use all new files for the prize rounds of the tournament. That would make it half and half. (this may still be pretty difficult with the higher files that would be needed, but would be more likely than all new for the whole thing).

[ilikexd]

Re: Should the FFR Official Tournament Only Use New Files?

I much rather prefer playing old files with only the last two rounds being the only rounds with new songs. The game is over saturated with files that receive very little plays because of all the songs that the game currently has already. So unless we start retiring files I would much rather recycle songs for the tourney than use new ones all the time. There were no complaints with this before I don't see why there should be any now

From my own personal standpoint, I'm leaning towards having a mix of old and new files for the tournament for a few of the reasons already mentioned such as the game really is pretty saturated already, and it's extremely difficult to fill all slots with brand new content. Every official we end up reaching out for internal files from people because we can't fill the slots and it's caused drama.

I understand the reasoning as a reaction to the current problems of oversaturation and difficulty in gathering content

These problems have affected things before, they are affecting things now since the structure of the official is being suggested to be changed (and it is not the structure itself that is the issue), and they will continue to affect things in the future: future officials and even a regular SOTW.

The fact of that matter is this: the current judgement process is not compatible with the current level of work that can be put into it. It's pessimistic, but I don't think this will be fully or even mostly solved by new judges, although it will help. With no system by which stepcharts are removed or segregated/unraked, the pool of available charts will grow ad infinitum, which clutters the game and makes completionism unattractive. But at the same time new content, especially for the officials, is a driving force of interest and activity and something a game like this can't live without.

The fact that this thread's question exists is a symptom of these problems and they need to be dealt with. Again, sorry for the tangent, but I feel this absolutely needs to be pointed out. Maybe it's a discussion better suited for another time/thread.

From my own personal standpoint, I'm leaning towards having a mix of old and new files for the tournament for a few of the reasons already mentioned such as the game really is pretty saturated already, and it's extremely difficult to fill all slots with brand new content. Every official we end up reaching out for internal files from people because we can't fill the slots and it's caused drama.

If it's a mix of new and old charts I think it would be important for at least 2-3 new charts to be used each round, so each division has a chance of new content and to keep interest generally elevated. At the same time I know that towards the final rounds, particularly for d6 and d7, players dread playing very hard charts that they've already played ad nauseam, became frustrated with, or mindblocked, and emphasis tends to be one on hoping they get lucky in drawing one of the charts they like or at least that they don't hate. So later rounds should be at least mostly new charts, moderately leveling out the playing field.

[tosh]

Re: Should the FFR Official Tournament Only Use New Files?

What I would PREFER is to have new files entirely.

What may be necessary at this point is a mixture, even though I hate the idea.

Pretty much my stance on this. As someone who has played in officials using only new files (recent officials) and ones using only files already in game (older officials): the current format of only using new files is much, much more exciting and fun imo.

However, I know the stress that the organizers and step artists go through to quickly pump out files (internally) in order to fill every round. So a combination of old and new might be best. Considering that there are 8 rounds, the new files could be alternated each round. Example: D1, D3, D5, and D7 get new files in round 1 whereas D2, D4, and D6 get old files in round 1. In round 2 the divisions get flipped so D2, D4, and D6 get the new files. The rest of the tournament would continue on with this alternating pattern. With this, each division would get the same number of new files, but D7 would be stuck with using an old file for the final round (could be seen as good or bad).

[psychoangel691]

Re: Should the FFR Official Tournament Only Use New Files?

I understand the reasoning as a reaction to the current problems of oversaturation and difficulty in gathering content

These problems have affected things before, they are affecting things now since the structure of the official is being suggested to be changed (and it is not the structure itself that is the issue), and they will continue to affect things in the future: future officials and even a regular SOTW.

The fact of that matter is this: the current judgement process is not compatible with the current level of work that can be put into it. It's pessimistic, but I don't think this will be fully or even mostly solved by new judges, although it will help. With no system by which stepcharts are removed or segregated/unraked, the pool of available charts will grow ad infinitum, which clutters the game and makes completionism unattractive. But at the same time new content, especially for the officials, is a driving force of interest and activity and something a game like this can't live without.

The fact that this thread's question exists is a symptom of these problems and they need to be dealt with. Again, sorry for the tangent, but I feel this absolutely needs to be pointed out. Maybe it's a discussion better suited for another time/thread.

Please don't take me for rude but I have no control over that end of things, so I'm just trying to cover my bases for events. I'd rather avoid discussions about the current batch/judgement system in this thread. I'm going to try to get with game management to see where things are with is as I don't really know what progress has been made as of now. I just know that things are behind.

[choof]

Re: Should the FFR Official Tournament Only Use New Files?

I much rather prefer playing old files with only the last two rounds being the only rounds with new songs. The game is over saturated with files that receive very little plays because of all the songs that the game currently has already.

this is a flawed argument

"1,917,755 members and growing!
286 users currently using FFR.
2,148,877 arrows hit today"

[gold stinger]

Re: Should the FFR Official Tournament Only Use New Files?

"90% of those members are bots or alt accounts" - Someone

Chipping in my voice though I like the idea of maybe the first couple rounds of the tournament using older songs as a way of "preliminary" or "pre-finals" rounds, and then using new songs nearing the final rounds of the tournament, where people can't rely on previous practice to save themselves.

[choof]

Re: Should the FFR Official Tournament Only Use New Files?

"90% of those members are bots or alt accounts" - Someone

"172597 real members and growing!
286 users currently using FFR.
2,148,877 arrows hit today"

[psychoangel691]

Re: Should the FFR Official Tournament Only Use New Files?

So I just realized there aren't even enough files in queue to keep with sotw releases until July when the tournament would likely be. Things are in pretty dire straights right now.

I'm going to do the best I can but I ask that you guys please be patient with me and help me find the best solution that will be agreeable to the majority here.

[PhantomPuppy]

Re: Should the FFR Official Tournament Only Use New Files?

woah hot damn, the tourney is gonna be in july this year? awesome. umm, my thoughts on this is as long as there is no preview for rounds that are using songs that are already in the game, then we should be fine. or maybe for the first 4 rounds we use old songs, and the rest of the tourney use new ones? or only for the top 16 use new ones? idk.

[blanky!]

Re: Should the FFR Official Tournament Only Use New Files?

Really, there shouldn't even be divisions in the first place, aside from encouraging competition between players of similar skill levels. That's a very different story, though.
If the tournament does end up using older files, my only suggestion would be to change up the patterns in those songs to prevent previous practice/mindblocks (in case one gets lucky/unlucky with song choice), but in a way so that the steps still follow the music accurately. Just my opinion.

[benguino]

Re: Should the FFR Official Tournament Only Use New Files?

I voted that a "Mix of new and old would be cool"; however, the "cool" is more of an "ok". I know that I tend to have the most free time during the summer so Iʻd be willing to sacrifice my desire to have all new files if it means that the official occurs at a time that is most convenient for me.

I do like Toshʻs suggestion about flip-flopping the new/old files between the odd/even divisions every round. It would be "fair" for each division and the majority of the participants will have the joy of at least playing one new file for the tournament.

Another suggestion, which may be horrible but has yet to be brought up, is to perhaps consider reducing the number of rounds in the tournament in order to reduce the amount of files needed. I wouldnʻt recommend making the cutoffs stricter in the earlier rounds though because those rounds tend to be the most active for the official (people tend to be slightly less interested in the tournament after theyʻve been eliminated). I know that the official has been using the 16->8->5->3->1 cutoff structure for the final rounds causing a large portion of the tournament to be geared towards only a few amount of players so perhaps one of those cutoffs could be eliminated without affecting the overall hype/activity the official brings in.

[Wayward Vagabond]

Re: Should the FFR Official Tournament Only Use New Files?

For those of you that weren't here when tourneys use to consist of old files. The round songs weren't given put until the day of so there was no way of knowing what songs to practice

[psychoangel691]

Re: Should the FFR Official Tournament Only Use New Files?

Yeah no one would know what files were coming up if files in game were used. The good thing with in game files too is it makes it easier to pick files that stress different things each round. When going with all new I'm limited to what people have submitted and so much of it tends to be jumpstream haha.