Tell me your life story.

[Reincarnate]

mi40: If you've had a relatively good upbringing, it's going to be hard for you to understand or empathize with those who've had legitimately bad childhoods. This is because you can't do much more than project your own experiences onto others even though it's all invalid extrapolation (you literally just did this, too).

To be bitter is to be mired in perpetual agony, jealousy, pessimism, and cynicism -- to constantly dwell on things and allow them to taint your worldview even when it's not rational to do so. You can acknowledge that your childhood was horrible without being bitter. Many problems can be solved with ample discussion and lots of parsing/contextualizing, which is what good therapy can accomplish.

"Either make amends to his family or completely cut them out" -- this is only half right. When you have parents like Dossar's, it's oftentimes not possible to make amends. Some people are toxic to the core and cannot be reasoned with. Most people don't understand this. At the end of the day, most people feel some kind of attachment to their parents. Even through all the disagreements, you're all still on the same side and see utility in repairing burned bridges. For toxic families, this is counterproductive, and such malignant individuals are not acting in your best interest. The best way to deal with these people is to cut them out completely.

"Proactive indifference" is just a veiled way to say "get over it," which is useless advice. No shit -- it'd be great if it were that simple. Execution is a million times harder than simply stating an idealized goal. Here's a secret pathway to becoming a billionaire, don't tell anyone: Invent commercial flying hover-car technology. You're welcome.

[axith]

Originally Posted by Reincarnate

Some people are toxic to the core and cannot be reasoned with. Most people don't understand this.

I didn't realize this until my stepmom went from being 'company polite' all the time, to a wailing bitch who's always the victim in every situation. Luckily, my brother and I are out of there and my dad's in the process of divorcing her. It's taking a lot longer than necessary because the stepbitch is on her 3rd lawyer. No one wants to work with her. I feel pretty bad because my brother had to deal with her emotional abuse way longer than I had to (he did eventually move in with a friend's family).

I'm not a fan of rehashing my past. It's full of things that basically make me more of a cynical person. A lot of stuff where people lose my trust and I get stuck in the circle of not wanting to trust people in general.

[smartdude1212]

Originally Posted by Reincarnate

"either make amends to his family or completely cut them out" -- this is only half right. When you have parents like Dossar's, it's oftentimes not possible to make amends. Some people are toxic to the core and cannot be reasoned with. Most people don't understand this. At the end of the day, most people feel some kind of attachment to their parents. Even through all the disagreements, you're all still on the same side. For toxic families, this isn't true, and such toxic individuals are not acting in your best interest. The best way to deal with these people is to cut them out completely.

This reminds me of my aforementioned excellent friend in my previous mammoth post... she has been living away from home since graduating in 2009 because her parents never treated her well. She still talked to them periodically, but very rarely had a kind word to say about those conversations when she recounted them to me. There is a hell of a lot I've left out, but just know that they had been causing her a fair amount of mental anguish for several years already.

Then, the year before last, her appendix decided to rupture. She had to be hospitalized almost immediately, underwent routine surgery for appendicitis, etc. I waited for the doctors to bring her back to the room afterwards, and I brought her flowers and a teddy bear (the nurses thought that I, 19 at the time, was her husband). It took much longer for her parents to even step foot in the hospital. According to her, the majority of the visit revolved around her mother blaming her for that ruptured appendix because it made her seem like she was just an attention-seeking wimp, and when did her mother ever play that kind of "poor me" card when she was in serious pain, and maybe she should stop doing this that and the other thing, all of which were obvious contributing factors to her jeopardized health. Not once did her mother express concern for what had just happened, as if my friend had sought out appendicitis, and not once did her father interject to temper the nastiness. I think her mother finally called her an undeserving, unappreciative little cunt, and my friend called her a self-righteous, pompous cunt in return.

Anyhow, from that point on, she essentially ceased all contact with them because of the endless stress associated with their toxicity. Sure, her parents may have given her the bare necessities for survival throughout childhood, but I think if you want to lead a psychologically and emotionally healthier lifestyle and get away from the constant rebukes and harsh criticisms, even from your biological family, and especially if it has been happening for a ridiculous period of time, you cannot just say "oh but I shot out of your vagina so it's not really that bad." Maybe you have to cut them out for a while, and hope for the unlikely event where they smarten up (probably too risky); or maybe you do have to cut them out completely, and start fresh.

[Reincarnate]

Originally Posted by smartdude1212

Not once did her mother express concern for what had just happened, as if my friend had sought out appendicitis, and not once did her father interject to temper the nastiness.

This is actually a pretty common dynamic from what I've experienced/learned -- one person tends to be the prime abuser and the other is the "silent enabler."

Originally Posted by smartdude1212

Sure, her parents may have given her the bare necessities for survival throughout childhood, but I think if you want to lead a psychologically and emotionally healthier lifestyle and get away from the constant rebukes and harsh criticisms, even from your biological family, and especially if it has been happening for a ridiculous period of time, you cannot just say "oh but I shot out of your vagina so it's not really that bad." Maybe you have to cut them out for a while, and hope for the unlikely event where they smarten up (probably too risky); or maybe you do have to cut them out completely, and start fresh.

That's also a big reason abuse tends to carry on sometimes -- "oh, but it's FAMILY!" as if that's the get-out-of-jail-free card. Kids naturally/biologically tend to feel a connection to their parents, and unfortunately some parents use that to their advantage.

[smartdude1212]

I'd have to agree on that front. I know her father was fairly vocal about a lot of things that she did or the people with whom she chose to associate, but I suspect that some of those ideas were propagated from his wife's ramblings without so much as a second thought.

This is also why I harbour such cynicism toward relationships (perhaps I should preface that with "loving" or "committed" because I don't mean the standard, say, employer-employee relationship, since I feel as if that may not be so applicable here), because it often seems like one person is regularly silenced by another, and they subconsciously let it happen. Is this perhaps a result of not wanting to disagree for fear of being perceived as insignificant by one's significant other? I'm a huge proponent of openness -- despite my own personal shortcomings on the matter -- so it's almost unnerving when I see a couple agree on an issue yet I know that one of them does feel differently in some way.

I suppose it's one way of weathering what could be a hell of an unpredictable storm.

[MarioNintendo]

All things considered, I think the majority of the people who have been posting in this thread had a shitty childhood. I am very lucky, mine was pretty calm. Just wondering, though, is there anyone else like me who experienced this destructive feeling of not having a "big enough pain" to complain about it? Again, it's fucking stupid, but I feel so isolated in my "perfect little life" that it makes me feel even worse about it.

Like, all the time.

Or nvm, maybe I'm just sour because it's late again :< Still, I'm intrigued about this question.

[mi40]

i'm not saying everybody should stay silent about abuse, i was trying to tell dossar to rethink his relationship with his parents since he certainly seems to be pretty bitter (thinking about killing your family at some point is pretty serious) and he probably hasnt had a chance to seriously talk it over with his parents because they won't listen to him

if he can't change how your parents feel about him then it's best not to touch the subject or think about it.. nothing good comes out of feeling bitter towards parents who still gave enough of a shit to pay for their son's stuff

what i'm telling dossar is, don't think about shit like revenge and just do well on your own while keeping a relatively stable relationship with your parents if they're still paying for your shit, after college you'll become independent

[mi40]

i also lived with my mom alone who can't speak english and has serious anger management problems for a good 7-8 years and had a seriously rough relationship with her especially because of her and my religious & moral differences and i dealt with my mom by just thinking of her as a legal guardian who pays for my shit and yells at me worked for me so that's what i'm telling dossar, anecdotal evidence or not

[smartdude1212]

Originally Posted by MarioNintendo

Just wondering, though, is there anyone else like me who experienced this destructive feeling of not having a "big enough pain" to complain about it? Again, it's fucking stupid, but I feel so isolated in my "perfect little life" that it makes me feel even worse about it.

I'm intrigued that you would think of it as a destructive feeling. It's a weird way to want to, perhaps, "fit in." I don't think anybody who has posted about what you call a "big enough pain" from their life was truly searching for that pain. Unfortunately, shit happens.

I can understand the feeling of isolation though. As I said in response to Choof's story, I had never experienced thoughts of suicide or had any desire to hurt myself, so I couldn't relate to how he must feel after enduring that stuff and then encountering the happiest time of his life. I can, fortunately, relate to being happy, so I've chosen to connect and rejoice in the "I love life" sense -- no wishing for bigger, badder pains is necessary.

[PriestREA]

Originally Posted by DossarLX ODI

post

Well holy fuck man, it seems like you've been constantly attacked by parents who claim tough love all the time. I mean my parents attacked me but for you it just seems like they got a kick out of doing it. Seeing as making amends hasn't worked so well for you/probably won't because of how stubborn your family seems to be, I hope you can be successful enough to look back and say "I'm better than that". Anyways, if you ever have some family problems in the future, I'm always willing to help

[Reincarnate]

Originally Posted by mi40

if he can't change how your parents feel about him then it's best not to touch the subject or think about it.. nothing good comes out of feeling bitter towards parents who still gave enough of a shit to pay for their son's stuff

You assume that parents only pay for things because they care about the child in some way. Again, you're projecting your own experiences.

In abusive families, money can be used for all sorts of purposes -- usually a form of control or abuse-justification.

[XelNya]

Originally Posted by Reincarnate

Kids naturally/biologically tend to feel a connection to their parents

Can I be honest and say I don't really understand why people place so much value in simply being related to a person?

A co-worker of mine, who is becoming a very good friend, has been having issues with his mother for years. She steals from him, forces him to pay the rent for the whole household because she wastes all her money gambling ect.

But he won't tell her to fuck off because they're "family." That doesn't make any sense to me honestly and it sucks to sit back and watch it happen to him. But I can't help but kind of feel it's slightly misplaced sympathy because he's enabling her on his own by not doing anything.

Like, the fact my mother had sex, became impregnated and gave birth to me doesn't feel like a reason to let her treat me like trash I guess is the way to phrase it. Maybe I'm just a heartless douche bag for this, but being related to me doesn't really mean all that much.

[mi40]

better than throwing your kid out to be homeless for sure
you wouldnt spend thousands of dollars over many years to a complete stranger you have absolutely zero fucks about, legal obligation or not

[Staiain]

I'd share mine but I'd need help from someone I could talk to who could write for me, as putting my words/thoughts onto paper/type it out is ironically one of the reasons parts of my life has been miserable in the first place.

[mi40]

how is it ignorance? i'm not allowed to voice my opinions just because my parents didn't smash a glass table?

how am i fucking wrong when i'm not arguing wrong or right
i'm just trying to give a perspective

get your head out of your ass dude

[mi40]

this isn't a debate contest rubix, i just offered some opinions (personal anecdote included) and here you are saying everything i'm saying is apparently wrong, too bad you're not offering any actual advice to dossar (who i was making my posts to, not you by the way)

you can think what you want and i'll think what i want, but neither of us are genius psychologists and therapists and i'm just trying to give my own advice (which i've gotten from my peers some of who also had hard upbringings) so lay off the hostile "you're wrong and i'm 100% right" tone

[Reincarnate]

Originally Posted by mi40

how is it ignorance? i'm not allowed to voice my opinions just because my parents didn't smash a glass table?

how am i fucking wrong when i'm not arguing wrong or right
i'm just trying to give a perspective

get your head out of your ass dude

What's with the strawman argument? Nobody's saying that you're not allowed to voice your opinion just because your parents didn't smash a table. You can voice whatever opinion you want. But you'd better have a justification that makes sense, or it's going to get called out.

It's ignorance because you keep blindly asserting "But they spent money!" as if that's sufficient grounds to dismiss/discredit/marginalize the effects of abuse, because you don't understand that spending money doesn't always equate to implicit care/support/etc in the normal sense of the construct. I could give you countless examples (from a variety of upbringings -- not just my own) where parents spend money to control / uphold an external image for their own benefit / justify other abuses / keep victims dependent / etc.

Yes, you're giving a perspective, but it's ridden with confirmation bias. You're ignoring all the possible situations in which your explanation clearly doesn't work, and yet you're offering that advice to Dossar when any cursory examination of the implications would reveal that it's profoundly counterproductive.

You don't need to be a "genius psychologist/therapist" to understand why this is harmful advice in Dossar's situation. It's actually one of the very arguments that many abusers will tell their victims in order to keep standards low and maintain their abuse as the perceived norm.

Understand that even if your intentions are good here, what you're saying is extremely harmful if someone takes it to heart because they don't know any better.

[Choofers]

Dads. Who needs em.


......








;~;

[Choofers]

Originally Posted by Reincarnate

Kids naturally/biologically tend to feel a connection to their parents, and unfortunately some parents use that to their advantage.

This, so fucking much. Looking back on my abuse, I was absolutely retarded. I always justified being beaten with stuff like, "oh at least I get to hang out with my brother," or, "well, he's taking us out to dinner so it's not as bad."

Sometimes I think back and wonder if I had disappointed him or something. And then that causes me to evaluate my life as a whole and it's just general bad shit.

Bleh.

[.Gazelle.]

Well this thread was a great read, guess its time for my story. I'm tapping this out on my phone so please forgive the typos/autocorrect.

I'm pretty hazy on the details of my first couple of years but I'll try my best.
I was born in Harlem hospital in 97 to a single mother who came to america due to the civil war in Liberia (still haven't gotten around to asking what the deal was with my father.) For my first two years of life we lived together with my aunt and her husband. When I was two my mom moved up to mass and left me with my aunt and uncle so she could go to nursing school and find some solid income for us. So i spent the first two years of my life thinking that my aunt and uncle were my parents. My aunt to this day is one of the most caring persons i have ever known, nothing really eventful happened in these years.

I started pre-k when i was 4 and this was when i was introduced to one of the things i love most, reading. My uncle who prided himself on education began to teach me how to read. After becoming competent enough to read on my own I began to absolutely devour books, I couldn't get enough of reading. This put me quite a bit ahead of my classmates when I started kindergarten, my teacher however, hated me. I was supposed to skip the grade, but every time my uncle would approach her about it she would dodge around and avoid the subject, by the time my uncle went to someone higher up to see about it, it was too late into the year for me to move up. There were a couple of medical issues I had that year. For one I developed a habit of picking at my navel, I eventually picked at it so often that it became infected. i hid the infection from my aunt until it became so bad that I had to be rushed to the emergency room. I don't remember for sure but I believe this was also the year that my uncle had his stroke, disabling him on his left side.

At the end of the year my mom came for me and moved us into an apartment in mass, due to her still having to work long shifts she had to fly in my grandmother from africa who left everything she had to come take care of me. One day while my mom was at work I got into the fridge and drank an entire bottle of cough syrup. My grandma, who doesn't have the strongest english had to fumble her way through a call to poison control to see if I'd be okay. (I just ended up very hyper)

First grade was my first year of school in Massachusetts and it brought a whole bunch of trouble for me. For one I was really, really, reaaaallllyyy hyper and impulsive, that coupled with the fact that I'd finish my work before everyone else left me with a whole lot of energy bottled up. I would blurt out things the instant they came to mind and would wander around the class when bored. Needless to say this didn't sit well with my teacher and I ended up with more than a few calls homes and a lot unsatisfactory conducts on my report card.

This year also began my yearly trips back to new york, my grandmother and i would take a bus ride from mass to ny to spend the summer with my aunt and uncle. During this bus ride i accepted some food from a random lady and was promptly sick when we arrived in ny, this is the one and only time i can remember vomiting and from that day i have had an irrational fear of it, which proved to be a real problem down the line.

From 2nd to 4th grade nothing of real magnitude happened, I kept up my hobby of reading and just went to school, during this time I developed a dislike of math that is really screwing me over right now I also discovered that I loved science. 5th grade was were things changed for me. The most memorable day of my of 5th grade was during MCAS, I finished testing early and was allowed to read. I picked up a book of scary stories and began to read, one story stuck with me and it was about a kid who slept in a tent in his backyard had a spider lay its eggs somewhere in his face, yadda yadda kid ends up in hospital baby spiders eat their way out of his face the end. This story grossed the living shit out of me and I immediately felt nauseas after finishing it. I waited for a while thinking it would go away. It didn't. Ended up going to the nurse for some crackers and a peppermint. The nausea still didn't go away, now until this year I had been a pretty chubby kid, but this nausea never really went away and it started taking its toll. In a span of one month I went from 140 pounds to 105 I was refusing to eat due to my fear of throwing up, and I ended up costing my mom a lot of money that year taking me to doctors trying to figure out what was up. It turned out that I had a severe enough case of GERD that at times when I would belch, I would end up with a mouthful of stomach juices. With how fast I had begun to lose weight and my refusal of food, my mom thought I was being bullied in school and despite my constant denials of that, the next year I was taken out of public school and registered for a christian private school.

Ironically, though I really wasn't being bullied in public school I quickly became the most hated kid in my new school because truth be told, I had become extremely annoying. It took me all of that year to finally find a way to reign in all that excess energy. Gaming. In 7th grade was when I first started playing ffr, I had found it from looking for "Drop the Bomb" after watching some real life Pokemon battle YouTube video back in 6th grade, I eventually stumbled upon the simfile database. Ended up downloading stepmania and a couple of linkin park songs, but I could figure out how the song folder worked and promptly deleted it. I can't remember what drew me back to the site, but I eventually signed up and started playing, around this time was also when I received my 360 and copy of halo 3, it was the only system I had owned at the time other than a GameCube. These two things absorbed every single minute of spare time I had in the day and also proved to be a good way to calm myself down a bit and it worked well until I entered highschool.

Up until now I had pretty much just spent time in school paying attention to the subjects I liked and ignoring this that I didn't, when I got into my math class for freshman year I realized I was in way over my head. No attention paid to math for about 3 years left me hilariously unprepared for the class and it showed on my report card, with decent grades in every other class and me barely scraping by in that one. Still I sunk all my time into gaming and completely ignored that my grades were progressively declining. Things got even worse this year when I discovered league. Was skipping meals due to not wanting to leave the computer and was pretty much ignoring school altogether. This ended up with me finally failing my first classes ever. Needless to say, my mom wasn't very happy about this, I ended up getting my keyboard taken away for quite a few large portions of the year, which ironically ended up in a massive shitstorm in the middle of the midterms, for English I had to type up a paper and hand it to the teacher at the beginning of the class, due to not having any access to the computer at home I typed my paper in the school library, long story short all of the students Google drives ended up being wiped, me being the prime example of punctuality I am found this out when I went to print my paper out during lunch one period before it was due. Surprise! My paper wasn't there as it had been deleted, this ended up with me rushing to retype my paper in the 5 minutes before the class started. I was late to class, my paper didn't get accepted and I said farewell to nearly half my grade. It took me til 4th quarter to finally start managing my time and putting in effort. Managed to scrape by in every class but one, which left me to attend summer school to recover credits. So here I sit a week before I start junior year hoping to shape things up.

Lol looking at this now, this looks more like a summary of school than of my life, also left a couple of things I wanted to touch on out, oh well. I might come back and fix it up when I can get on my computer.
Edit: oops forgot to say I moved back to public school freshman year