God Exists? Interesting essay I found.

[aperson]

Re: God Exists? Interesting essay I found.

It's step 4 that's wrong. Now I don't know much about Euclidean frames, but going from possible to definitely is a contradiction in terms.

Absolutely. I've never ever seen any kind of logic argument take that step before.

Also, by his logic, you can simply use induction to say that since anything you think might exist has to exist, everything exiists. In essence, we're in infinity.

[Reach]

Re: God Exists? Interesting essay I found.

Absolutely. I've never ever seen any kind of logic argument take that step before.

Also, by his logic, you can simply use induction to say that since anything you think might exist has to exist, everything exiists. In essence, we're in infinity.

exactly

Izzy, our understanding of time is fairly primative, but we know it's relative, suggesting that there is probably no time line. It is likely time is nothing more than events happening within our 3 dimensional perception of space-time.

[GuidoHunter]

Re: God Exists? Interesting essay I found.

Is time really thing that exists or is just something that is an artificial mesurement.

No, because time is relative. Since my time is different from your time, there is no absolute time.

Time also doesn't exist for photons and other things that move at the speed of light.

faith is generally defined as ignoring the logical world in favor of a supernatural one

Faith doesn't ignore anything logical. Perfectly fine logical arguments can be used in matters of faith. Faith deals with scientific constructs: things that cannot be proven.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

[PMS-Izzy]

Re: God Exists? Interesting essay I found.

It would definatly be easier to have faith in something that makes sense though and maybe something that can eventually be proven.

If god told me to be faithful i probably would. So far nothing has happened though.

[GuidoHunter]

Re: God Exists? Interesting essay I found.

If it could be proven, it wouldn't be faith. A construct is not something that hasn't been proven, it's something that CANNOT be proven.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

[PMS-Izzy]

Re: God Exists? Interesting essay I found.

Then there is easily no point faith.
We are all just going to die anyways.

[talisman]

Re: God Exists? Interesting essay I found.

Ok so I read farther into the thread and I realize what the issue is, and I now understand Euclidean frames.

Basically there's a premise not stated in the main argument that's stated in the OP that when something is "possible" it means that it happens on at least one world. So he isn't using the dictionary definition of "possible", and by the Euclidean definition he's absolutely correct.

The problem, of course is the Euclidean assumption in the first place. As he argues later in the thread:

Or put another way, is it reasonable to say that it is possible that a being that exists in every possible worlds exists in at least one world? It seems reasonable to me.

And that's where the issue is. It DOESN'T seem reasonable to me that a possible being must, by simple virtue of being possible, exist in one world.

[MrPoptart]

Re: God Exists? Interesting essay I found.

lol its like mathematical proff the god exits

[Snapps]

Re: God Exists? Interesting essay I found.

Sounds like Kingdom Hearts to me.

[MilfeulleSakuraba]

Re: God Exists? Interesting essay I found.

Then there is easily no point faith.
We are all just going to die anyways.

Yes, but if those who have faith are correct, then life on Earth is relatively meaningless in the grand scheme of things aside from being the prereq for getting into heaven (assuming your faith swings that way).

Of course, if those who beleive in no God are correct, then we all spend the rest of existence rotting in the ground. Kinda boring, but certainly a better prospect than eternal damnation.

[GuidoHunter]

Re: God Exists? Interesting essay I found.

And that's where the issue is. It DOESN'T seem reasonable to me that a possible being must, by simple virtue of being possible, exist in one world.

talisman, what you're saying and what pansophist said in the part you quoted aren't the same.

Or put another way, is it reasonable to say that it is possible that a being that exists in every possible worlds exists in at least one world? It seems reasonable to me.

(Emphasis mine) He's starting off with the assumption that a being DOES exist in every possible world. From that, it is easy (and thus reasonable, as he says) to conclude that a being exists in one world (since one is part of every).

You say "a possible being", when the being was assumed to be.

Now, whether or not that assumption was valid (I didn't read the whole essay) is another matter; I just wanted to clear up that confusion.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

[talisman]

Re: God Exists? Interesting essay I found.

yeah I did misuse that quote... but what I said is also true of what he meant. I know for a fact that he said essentially what I just posted many times.

Here I found it:

No, possibly means that it's true in at least one world.

Hope that clears that up.

[mattyohh]

Re: God Exists? Interesting essay I found.

Alot of the time people use faith to try to explain the un-explainable

[-Izzy-]

Re: God Exists? Interesting essay I found.

Guido im trying to keep my cool but your being as stupid as i was. This is going to go nowhere and mal probably knew that before he started.

[mattyohh]

Re: God Exists? Interesting essay I found.

IN the bible god always appeared to the people and did all that godly things but that never happens anymore and when you hear voice you have mental issue. MAYBE Jesus had a mental Illness. but if God did exist you'd think he'd appear to us like he used in the good old biblical days