Re: Suggestion/Proposal: Tier Point Requirements Revamp
I agree that under the assumption the skill rating formula produces accurate estimations of score value, the tier point list isn't necessary. I was hoping, however, that the list at some point in the future could serve a different purpose. This is something I pitched to multiple devs over the past couple years (and eventually something similar [albeit significantly more complex than what I had in mind] arose in the smleaderboards site)
I was hoping to use the tp list to help develop a player pentagonal stat indicator that would show up somewhere on profiles.
For reference, this is what it looks like (I'm sure most players have seen something like this at some point)
Here's a snippet from the last time I discussed it (to save myself some time):
[2015-09-11 4:57:44 PM] Rob: basically
[2015-09-11 4:58:06 PM] Rob: i wanted to base it on the songs used for tier points
[2015-09-11 4:58:21 PM] Rob: incorporate an invisible stat attribute towards whatever the song stresses
[2015-09-11 4:58:25 PM] Rob: between like
[2015-09-11 4:59:22 PM] Rob: speed, stamina, jacking, technicality (bursts etc., maybe there's a better term to represent this) and consistency (for measuring accuracy on longer files...potentially something better for the fifth slot could come along idk, maybe separate speed for streaming and speed for jumpstreaming)
[2015-09-11 5:00:12 PM] Rob: we could have a pentagonal stat indicator groove radar thing on player profiles ranging from...idk 1-10?
[2015-09-11 5:00:26 PM] Rob: anyways, we'd assign invisible stats to each tier point song
[2015-09-11 5:01:13 PM] Rob: a high FGO like eclipse for example worth 10 points on the tp list could be worth 9 points in speed when the player meets max requirements for the highest tier
[2015-09-11 5:01:58 PM] Rob: with points awarded for each subsequent tier met underneath max scaling downwards appropriately
[2015-09-11 5:02:26 PM] Rob: lots of songs will probably fall into multiple categories worth different amounts
[2015-09-11 5:02:48 PM] Rob: like for instance a AAA on something could be worth speed 5 but technicality 8
[2015-09-11 5:03:26 PM] Rob: i'd have to go through everything and assign these numbers, hopefully with the help of other diff consultants or players experienced enough to understand what each file stresses and to what degree
[2015-09-11 5:04:10 PM] Rob: i don't know if it should be structured so that a player's rating on the radar is the max point value achieved for that category for any one score
[2015-09-11 5:04:20 PM] Rob: or if you'd prefer a weighted average using top four or something
[2015-09-11 5:04:22 PM] Rob: a la skill rating
[2015-09-11 5:04:35 PM] Rob: but yeah you get the gist i think (i hope)
[2015-09-11 5:04:45 PM] Rob: i articulated better in staff chat i wish i could find it aarrghh
[2015-09-11 5:06:36 PM] Rob: if using a 1-10 scale for the five categories, i believe anyone achieving a 9 in speed for one score is very capable of achieving multiple 8s
[2015-09-11 5:06:41 PM] Rob: assuming we just used 1-10 integers
[2015-09-11 5:07:27 PM] Rob: so i think basing player profile score value for each category on just the highest points received on any one file would be sufficient (and accurate)
[2015-09-11 5:07:46 PM] Rob: since the gaps between one level and the next would be large enough
[2015-09-11 5:08:00 PM] Rob: but if you don't like that i'm sure doing something like 1-100 could work
[2015-09-11 5:08:19 PM] Rob: it'd just be a lot more time-intensive to come up with the values for each file
[2015-09-11 5:08:24 PM] Rob: (and much more subjective lol)
To inevitably answer "why only the tier point songs and not everything?", the tier point files are already segmented in such a way that points for the stat indicator can be assigned based on the tier boundaries, and most of the tier files were picked based on the fact that they stress those categories to high degrees at each difficulty level. Plus it'd be incredibly time-intensive to assign these values for all 2k songs in game and I honestly have no intention on doing that assuming this took off (especially continuing to do so on a rolling basis as new songs come out, it'd be much more efficient to just update the tier list with new files if more appropriate charts to test these skills came out).
Aside from players getting to jack off to another statistic (and one with a neato graphic to boot!), I think it'd be cool for players to be able to quantify and visually measure their improvement in any skill category, instead of just guessing they're getting better at some specific skill over time.
[2015-09-11 5:22:16 PM] Rob: plus i could see random people profile surfing looking for really funny stat indicators
[2015-09-11 5:22:30 PM] Rob: like something with a 9 in jacking but 5/6s everywhere else
[2015-09-11 5:22:54 PM] Rob: a 'post your stat radar' thread could be started at some point shortly after release if it becomes a thing
Plus yeah penis graphs are always neat to see
I agree that under the assumption the skill rating formula produces accurate estimations of score value, the tier point list isn't necessary. I was hoping, however, that the list at some point in the future could serve a different purpose. This is something I pitched to multiple devs over the past couple years (and eventually something similar [albeit significantly more complex than what I had in mind] arose in the smleaderboards site)
I was hoping to use the tp list to help develop a player pentagonal stat indicator that would show up somewhere on profiles.
For reference, this is what it looks like (I'm sure most players have seen something like this at some point)
Here's a snippet from the last time I discussed it (to save myself some time):
[2015-09-11 4:57:44 PM] Rob: basically
[2015-09-11 4:58:06 PM] Rob: i wanted to base it on the songs used for tier points
[2015-09-11 4:58:21 PM] Rob: incorporate an invisible stat attribute towards whatever the song stresses
[2015-09-11 4:58:25 PM] Rob: between like
[2015-09-11 4:59:22 PM] Rob: speed, stamina, jacking, technicality (bursts etc., maybe there's a better term to represent this) and consistency (for measuring accuracy on longer files...potentially something better for the fifth slot could come along idk, maybe separate speed for streaming and speed for jumpstreaming)
[2015-09-11 5:00:12 PM] Rob: we could have a pentagonal stat indicator groove radar thing on player profiles ranging from...idk 1-10?
[2015-09-11 5:00:26 PM] Rob: anyways, we'd assign invisible stats to each tier point song
[2015-09-11 5:01:13 PM] Rob: a high FGO like eclipse for example worth 10 points on the tp list could be worth 9 points in speed when the player meets max requirements for the highest tier
[2015-09-11 5:01:58 PM] Rob: with points awarded for each subsequent tier met underneath max scaling downwards appropriately
[2015-09-11 5:02:26 PM] Rob: lots of songs will probably fall into multiple categories worth different amounts
[2015-09-11 5:02:48 PM] Rob: like for instance a AAA on something could be worth speed 5 but technicality 8
[2015-09-11 5:03:26 PM] Rob: i'd have to go through everything and assign these numbers, hopefully with the help of other diff consultants or players experienced enough to understand what each file stresses and to what degree
[2015-09-11 5:04:10 PM] Rob: i don't know if it should be structured so that a player's rating on the radar is the max point value achieved for that category for any one score
[2015-09-11 5:04:20 PM] Rob: or if you'd prefer a weighted average using top four or something
[2015-09-11 5:04:22 PM] Rob: a la skill rating
[2015-09-11 5:04:35 PM] Rob: but yeah you get the gist i think (i hope)
[2015-09-11 5:04:45 PM] Rob: i articulated better in staff chat i wish i could find it aarrghh
[2015-09-11 5:06:36 PM] Rob: if using a 1-10 scale for the five categories, i believe anyone achieving a 9 in speed for one score is very capable of achieving multiple 8s
[2015-09-11 5:06:41 PM] Rob: assuming we just used 1-10 integers
[2015-09-11 5:07:27 PM] Rob: so i think basing player profile score value for each category on just the highest points received on any one file would be sufficient (and accurate)
[2015-09-11 5:07:46 PM] Rob: since the gaps between one level and the next would be large enough
[2015-09-11 5:08:00 PM] Rob: but if you don't like that i'm sure doing something like 1-100 could work
[2015-09-11 5:08:19 PM] Rob: it'd just be a lot more time-intensive to come up with the values for each file
[2015-09-11 5:08:24 PM] Rob: (and much more subjective lol)
To inevitably answer "why only the tier point songs and not everything?", the tier point files are already segmented in such a way that points for the stat indicator can be assigned based on the tier boundaries, and most of the tier files were picked based on the fact that they stress those categories to high degrees at each difficulty level. Plus it'd be incredibly time-intensive to assign these values for all 2k songs in game and I honestly have no intention on doing that assuming this took off (especially continuing to do so on a rolling basis as new songs come out, it'd be much more efficient to just update the tier list with new files if more appropriate charts to test these skills came out).
Aside from players getting to jack off to another statistic (and one with a neato graphic to boot!), I think it'd be cool for players to be able to quantify and visually measure their improvement in any skill category, instead of just guessing they're getting better at some specific skill over time.
[2015-09-11 5:22:16 PM] Rob: plus i could see random people profile surfing looking for really funny stat indicators
[2015-09-11 5:22:30 PM] Rob: like something with a 9 in jacking but 5/6s everywhere else
[2015-09-11 5:22:54 PM] Rob: a 'post your stat radar' thread could be started at some point shortly after release if it becomes a thing
Plus yeah penis graphs are always neat to see
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