Aperson vs. Senate voting thread

[Jello]

meh a lot of you guys have no idea what design is. My sister is in the advertising and design business. and she says apersons destroys senates.

shes an apprentice to my cousin whos a pretty damn famous art director as well. so.. ill value her opinion over what yall think... since she actually went to school to learn about that shit.

[The_Q]

ill value her opinion over what yall think

Bad grammar aside, you do realize that the unwashed masses either know what they're talking about or have a lot more sway than one trained professional.

Example: Texas Stadium being built in Arlington after every single economist in the local college screamed "NO, IT WILL FUCK EVERYTHING UP YOU MORONS!" Still, the people up it up. The property value of my house has dropped 5k since the announcement of this thing's construction less than a year ago. You know what that means? That means people are moving out of the town faster than they're moving in. They may not now how they're voting, Jello, but they are a lot smarter when it comes to buying homes. Could we apply this to our current situation here?

Q

[talisman]

um, I don't see why you people like senate's that much. It's nice, but it doesn't fit the message, and isn't perfect graphically. In my mind aperson's wins by quite a bit.

[senate7377]

Thats the crazy thing about art - its in perspective. aperson and I talked about that shortly after posting our submissions in reference to the gamma settings of a screen. The colors look one way to the artist becuas of the settings, but becuase someone else has a diferent setting (mine is Pantone matched on a 42" Samsung TFT), they look different. Things like dot pitch and lumines play a role as well. Thats teh down side to digial art. Even though technically its correct, you're subject to mass appeal and the settings of the medium on which its viewed. The Smithsonian here in DC had an art exhibit that consisted of an expensive suit with spray paint all over it. that was iin my opinion the second grossest thing and waste of money I'd ever seen. It was a testament to waste. It was selling for millions of dollars. Perhaps there was irony in the creation alone, but its not making it creat.

Even though your sister had gone to school for design and advertising...thats a different theory than web design. Advetising is to draw you TO a subject and to stand out. Trends change and had the current trend not been clashing colors (red and yellow of that hue and shade, on a color scale, technically have no business together from a paint aspect), would your sister believe that apersons was better? So then it rasies the question, is it graded on trend, technicality, or both. this is why the criteria was set up. I wont deny hes not awful, but I could turn around and say that looking at his code, his text is an image. You NEVER put body text in a site as an image. It get sfuzzy , as his did. the alignment is off and for those few reasons, its thorws the total composition of the image. I'll admit I have flaws in mine too and could have and should have been more thurough in my work. I wasn't but took extra steps to give extra content. The login page is not the home page, nad the overall header is used to set a tone. Its all open to interpretation and thats what makes art great. I would have done an irate and raving mad site had the title been SHUTHEFUCKUP.COM, but it's SHUTYOURHOLE. Something angry or irritated, but has traces of respect (sans the cursing). Aperson said that took him 6 hours to do. That is a LONG time for a single page with next to no real content. It's funny, and gives the feel of anger so to say FUCK OFF ASS HOLE", but the comp. was for a professional site... those arent things you say professionally. I did all three pages in less than 6 hours, what took me a lot of time was the 3d images contained within. Personally I feel his header fonts are boring, and have no definition to it. The varied weight of the font is nice, but its common tol the point of almost over used. The fonts I use are commonas well (Arial and Lucida Sans) and the header is debateably an ugly font as well (Imperial Chisel), but it was going for an elegant look without resorting to the ugly handwritten fonts. I can justify my reasons on things all day long, but it would destroy the statement of "Art is how you interpret it". Ive offered an explanation for those who wanted to understnd the reasons why things were chosen.

I actually agree with Q. Daily I look at things and say "UGH thats shit! You people are morons for even looking in that genereal direction for ackowledgement of said shit!", but poeple flock to it like there is no tomorrow i.e. Von Dutch, Pairs Hilton, and Nike. It may not really help my work in that context, advertisings JOB is to prey off of the social need to become a part of the autonomous collective and being trend whores. Their JOB is to make things massively appealing regardless of its quality. aperson DID pull that off, but this has ended up as more of a battle of technically correct and public appeal. We both have flaws in both areas of that too.

[Squeek]

Senate, can you upload the HTML files someplace?

It's a close call between the two, so why don't I check your compliancy?

Aperson's got 11 compliancy errors on his page and is not HTML 4.01 transitional. What is yours, I wonder?

~Squeek

[aperson]

Squeek: I threw the html up real quickly just to show how it would look with a full stretch. Don't worry about the html on this one, a fully functional webpage was not required for this, just a template.


Look at the voting criteria, html and making it an actual page don't count.

[senate7377]

Let me find it again. I deleted it cause I didnt think we'd need it. Sounds likely yes... but when he posted his and I saw it was a slided image and not much more, then I was like "engh I dont need the code, Im not doing anything with it after this, I have my screenshots...no one will ask let alone care. Im not completely W3C compliant and suspect that I have a total of around 69 things to fix (as thats my draft average per page of 1000 lines or more), I looked at apersons code and it was all of 2 or three tables, and I did notice that it was 11 errors. If I remember right I can tell you I had more than that but I did code it in XHTML transitional. I also had over a 1000 lines of code per page excluding the logon, which was like 50 at most. I'll try to get norton to unerase ti, as I've emptied my recycle bin. If any of you have an idea as to how to unerase a file - let me know I'll do it and post my HTML for all three pages. Im sure I'll have WAY more errors, liek I said, but a lower percentage if you look at line numbers. I genereally dont care if IE li,es my pages either, so.. that kind of hurts sometimes (its my private war against IE and their lack of standards, like iFRAMES) I initially had said that we werent to actually POST the page itself in completel HTML becuase I have no place to host a full site and to take screenshot of the page. I happened to piece mine to be ONE long ass image, reflecting the three different pages.

Like I said, any idea on how to recover that, let me know I'll be more than willing ot share the html with you guys
EDIT * *** * * * * * *

Ok i have it sort of recovered, i t only recovered bits and pieces of it. two of the pages have been overwritten and then the page I did recoverd the template version, it has no content in it... and I check that for compliance, its...not as complaint as I'd like but I wont edit it to be fair, I just cant be late for work again ato day, so I'll post it around 11pm when I get home


EDIT2: Why would you full stretch that anyway, thats crazy dead space. Center the page, span down ony, if needed...

[senate7377]

OK, the only thing I can present is my tempalate so instead of 1000 lines of code is only 178 lines. I checked it beofre posting it and did not alter it - despite the 9 errors from this link http://validator.w3.org/check. youlll need to cut and pase the code to a file on your HDD. then upload it to check, but there sorry its not he the WHOEL 3 pages, my dumbass deleted it, but .... you can see the other code and stuff by looking at http://djellam.com, its free web rok an its not done, but you can view source of you like, or if you want a different exapmle I'll upload my code for my personal site

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<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd">
<html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">
<head>
<title>Shut Your Hole - Exercise yo' bitch hand! - Welcome home</title>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1" />
<meta name="Author" content="Shawn Gordon" />
<meta name="description" content="The competition piece beteween aperson and senate7377 on FFR. " />
<meta name="keywords" content="senate, senate7377, aperson, ffr, shawn, ej ronin, pwn, contest, bitch hand, stfu, check, feces" />
<meta http-equiv="refresh" content="5000" />



<!-- reading the code eh? I don't plan on keeping this but wrote this just in case. I generally write a comment header in my code for those who are interested in it. This work was for one purpose only and not to be taken seriously nor is it to be used as an actual site. There is not a real company called SYH Media LLC, but I'm sure if there was, that they don't care about you at all. I wish my competitor luck in what he does. I also hope he's not relying on typography and color schema to pull him along. Web design entails SO much more than that, and the gestalt theory of his posts don't exactly apply in web. In an way I hope someone reads this because it shows they give a shit.

This was designed to be an ironic elegance piece. In general you yell "Shut your hole" at someone if you are upset nd found it funny that the give an opposite appearance. Should I lose the competition, that's not a big deal, the people in FFR have no real bearing on much outside of it concerning my life. I'll continue to get paid doing what I do, and should aperson want a rematch - bring it "nancy boy" . Someone stated that a single round was kind of lame. Should I win I'll offer you the chance to respectfully tie it up, and would hope you were mature enough to offer the same in contrast.

In no way are there hard feelings between aperson and I (I don't think)...I see it as more of a cocky artist piss contest. Even if I lose, the content speaks for itself, I'm pretty confidant hell recant his claim to murder me in 3D. Its not even good 3D and I feel it would stop him, based on his 2D theories alone.

With that, enjoy the page, the content in words is actually meaning ful to a point and carries relevance to some of the more recent FFR forum topics. I did think some of this out.

next time - I'll actually work at it.


You'll notice that there a "bgcolor" and "background" identifiers in the same lines. this ensures that if for some reason the input header spans larger than the image, the look stays consistent. I don't use fancy headers, its not the feel i wanted for this site. I know that IE and Netscape don't like background - IE7 will allow these tags on IE7, so I'm not worried about it. Its true 75% of the market uses IE, but that's why I didn't use PNG transparencies. They come up this robin grey in IE. Mozilla handles it fine, as does opera and safari and maxaton and aqua. Once IE comes u p to yesterday I'll be happy to comply with their fucked standards. What web designer usesiFrames anyway? You can say the same about tables, yes - since most of it can be done in CSS, but I'm not as familiar with CSS as XHTML. Once I get there and comfortable making a pure CSS site, I'll do it, until then suffer the tables of doom. I lvoe PNGs for their size and their crispness. JPGS are bloatsed, BMPs will get you shot, and GIF say "Im lazy" (especially "spacer.gif" - who taught you how to slice if you have a spacer.gif?)

If anyone wants this code take it, its not my best work and its not completely compliant - but then neither is 75% of the web sites out there, blame MS not me. This wed site doesnt reflect the PHP that was done for the content, but merely shows where I have it set to go. Thanks, and have a nice day.

-->

<style type="text/css">
<!--
a:link {
text-decoration: none;
}

a:hover {
color: "#EEEEEE"

a:visited {
text-decoration: none;
}

.style10 {
font-family: "Lucida Sans", Verdana, Arial, sans-serif;
font-size: 12px;
font-weight: bold;
color: #EEE07F;
}

.style11 {
font-family: "Lucida Sans", Verdana, Arial, sans-serif;
font-size: 10px;
}
.style12 {
font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size: 10px;
}
-->
</style>

</head>
<body bgcolor="#333333">

<table id="Table_01" width="800" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" align="center">
<tr>
<td>

<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="800">
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<td background="images/shutyourhole_01_r2_c1.png" width="800" height="31"><table width="35%" border="0" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="0" id="nav">
<tr align="left" valign="middle">

<td><div align="left" class="style10">HOME</div></td>
<td><div align="left" class="style10">RULES</div></td>
<td><div align="left" class="style10">MAIL</div></td>
</tr>
</table></td>
</tr>
</table></td>
</tr>
<tr>

<td> <table width="800" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" bgcolor="e9e9e9">
<tr bgcolor="e9e9e9">
<td width="800" height="33" colspan="5"><h3></h3></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="47" height="100%" rowspan="7" valign="top" background="images/shutyourhole_02_r2_c1.png"></td>
<td width="514" height="24" bgcolor="d0d0d0" src="images/shutyourhole_02_r2_c2.png"></td>
<td width="38" height="100%" rowspan="7" valign="top" background="images/shutyourhole_02_r2_c3.png"></td>
<td width="190" height="24" bgcolor="bebebe"shutyourhole_02_r2_c4" src="images/shutyourhole_02_r2_c4.png"></td>
<td width="11" height="100%" rowspan="7" valign="top" bgcolor="e9e9e9" border="0"></td>
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<td width="514" height="17" align="left" valign="middle" background="images/shutyourhole_02_r3_c2.png"><table width="75%" border="0" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="0" bgcolor="#666666" id="KEC">
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<td class="style10">Keep 'em in check! </td>
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<td width="190" height="17" align="left" valign="middle" background="images/shutyourhole_02_r3_c4.png" bgcolor="bebebe"><table width="75%" border="0" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="0" bgcolor="#666666">
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<td class="style10">Bits 'n' Feces </td>
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</table></td>
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<td width="514" height="100%" align="left" valign="top" background="images/shutyourhole_02_r4_c2.png"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="5">
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<td bgcolor="#d0d0d0"><span class="style12">text - inset PHP here - check.php </span></td>
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</table></td>
<td width="190" height="100%" rowspan="5" align="left" valign="top" bgcolor="bebebe"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="5">
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<td class="style12">text - bits.php </td>
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<td width="514" height="17" align="left" valign="middle" background="images/shutyourhole_02_r5_c2.png"><table width="75%" border="0" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="0" bgcolor="#666666" id="STFU">
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<td class="style10">STFU! Awards </td>
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<td width="514" height="100%" align="left" valign="top" background="images/shutyourhole_02_r6_c2.png"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="5">
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<td bgcolor="d0d0d0" class="style12">text- insert PHP here - stfu.php </td>
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<td width="514" height="17" align="left" valign="middle" background="images/shutyourhole_02_r7_c2.png"><table width="75%" border="0" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="0" bgcolor="#666666" id="AS">
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<td class="style10">Ad[non]Sense </td>
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<td width="514" height="100%" align="left" valign="top" background="images/shutyourhole_02_r8_c2.png"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="5">
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<td bgcolor="d0d0d0" class="style12">text - insert PHP here - sense.php </td>
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<table width="800" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" bgcolor="e9e9e9">
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<td></td>
<td width="723" height="29" align="center" valign="middle"> <div align="center" class="style11">Copyright &copy; 2005 SYH Industries We care, just not about you. </div></td>
<td></td>
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</table></td>
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</body>
</html>



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Though aperson is right, I just took extra steps to make it as real as I could, I didnt want text as an image, its fuzzes up that way..and be damnned if I use GIF

[PsYcHoZeRoSk8eR]

I'm voting aperson for this, I think his looks better.

[Rebirth0]

Aperson has my vote this round. btw, They book suck?

[senate7377]

Aperson has my vote this round. btw, They book suck?

lol (though I can't talk - my typos are legnedary)

[senate7377]

Voteing closes at midnight tonight... if yo havent done so and want to - do it now

[esupin]

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

lol (though I can't talk - my typos are legnedary)

[senate7377]

no I war referring to

They book suck?

.... its wasnt my typo, but its funny....nvm

[esupin]

no I war referring to

They book suck?

I don't even remember typing that...
Anyways, it seems like Aperson won by one vote.