Mechanical Flower

[Zaevod]

Re: Mechanical Flower

I must say those comments confuse me a lot, especially because they can be pretty conflicting.

I guess I'll need to study some music theory to understand what you mean, anyway. It's strange when someone basically tells you the enjoyment you get from a melody is an illusion.

[Nullifidian]

Re: Mechanical Flower

In what way do they confuse you?

[Zaevod]

Re: Mechanical Flower

"You're improving a lot" to "basically everything is fundamentally wrong". If both are right, that basically means I was atrocious and now I'm terrible. It's funnier than frustrating, actually. And I've also heard things like "the composition is good, but the mix is bad" (for other songs). But, as always, I'll take the worst criticism and try to improve. I didn't seriously think I needed to study music theory until now.

[Nullifidian]

Re: Mechanical Flower

I don't know your previous works that well, but it very well could be that you're improving a lot. I may just have a high standard lol. I basically came in here as a blank and base my opinion on my standards, not on what you've previously produced.

[Zaevod]

Re: Mechanical Flower

I'm very curious. What do you say about the song in my signature? And do you like all the songs you've stepped (like Schmollbluk)?

[Frank Munoz]

Re: Mechanical Flower

2:04 is a pretty solid example of "random notes".
Your melodies aren't so random as is your structure and chords.
You have chord irritations everywhere but it's not always bad to have them as well, but in most opinions you did not execute them very well.

Now, even with a few structure issues, you could nearly vanquish them if you had a better understanding of how to mix and master; but you knew that already.
Just keep practicing and you'll understand the small complexities that composing thrives on soon enough.

[Zaevod]

Re: Mechanical Flower

What is a chord irritation?

[Nullifidian]

Re: Mechanical Flower

Piano melody: The beginning although a bit basic in terms of composition works (although a bit generic and repetetive) but then:
0:20 sounds disonnant with the previous notes
0:26 doesn't fit with the notes before this
Introduction of the instruments at 0:30 is very sudden and no proper buildup to it. The percussion is very jumpy and gets on one's nerves very quickly. The secondary piano that's introduced here doesn't really complement the main piano melody.
The melody at 0:52 is also generic. The secondary piano at 1:12 is quite dissonant. 1:43 is really weird for a lack of better words. I know it's an attempt at climax but it's done in a cheesy incoherent mess. Not to mention the tone progression of this part.

What kind of mood are you trying to create with this? I don't see the intention of this song.

[ScylaX]

Re: Mechanical Flower

The fact you're improving is indeniable but that doesn't contradict the fact there are clearly problems with your composition.
That doesn't mean your music is absolutely bad and somehow completely random, saying "everything is fundamentally wrong" is overcharging it. We're just saying there are clear fundamental *inconsistencies* (not sure if the word is totally appropriated) about how you construct your polyphony.

[Frank Munoz]

Re: Mechanical Flower

What is a chord irritation?

It's just a chord and/or series of chords that do not sound good together.
Which, yea sounds kinda like that's based on the listener but if you know what chords are and how they are composed you would know i guess.

ex:
Major chord = CEG
Major chord with a 7th = CEGB (7th chords create the most unique atmospheres imo)
And, now an example of a bad chord = CFGb

But even then, you can make any chord work if you execute it well but you have multiple "bad chords" in sequence.

Also, read Spitfires reply for some more stuff

AND, ScylaX's msg as well.
In reality, anyone from anywhere can and will find something wrong with a composition,

[Nullifidian]

Re: Mechanical Flower

I never said everything is fundamentally wrong btw, I only used that in my example to illustrate my point. There are some fundamental issues but I didn't mean everything is fundamentally flawed if that's what you got from that message.

Which, yea sounds kinda like that's based on the listener but if you know what chords are and how they are composed you would know i guess.

This is basically what I meant with my example. The more you understand something, the more you understand why it works or why it doesn't work.

[Zaevod]

Re: Mechanical Flower

0:20 sounds disonnant with the previous notes
0:26 doesn't fit with the notes before this

I thought it was pretty obvious that this was intentional, and I've heard tone shifts like this in a lot of songs.

Introduction of the instruments at 0:30 is very sudden and no proper buildup to it.

I tend to enjoy sudden chords like that. No one had an issue with that before, and I thought the progression was pretty easy to follow...

The percussion is very jumpy and gets on one's nerves very quickly. The secondary piano that's introduced here doesn't really complement the main piano melody.

Strange, since another musician once said "you have outstanding chord progression", referring to that part.

The melody at 0:52 is also generic.

Where have you heard anything similar? Can you point out any song?

I hear generic songs all the time here and everywhere. A lot of songs in the game are terribly generic and, honestly, I think this is a lot less generic than most of them.

The secondary piano at 1:12 is quite dissonant. 1:43 is really weird for a lack of better words. I know it's an attempt at climax but it's done in a cheesy incoherent mess. Not to mention the tone progression of this part.

Where do your standards come from, anyway? I understand having high standards is good, but you are clearly pointing out problems that don't exist.

What kind of mood are you trying to create with this? I don't see the intention of this song.

Oh well... It's meant to be a theme for an extremely hard part of a trial for my main character in the third book of my series. The context is a bit complex.


Anyway, I'm not asking you to enjoy my music, but I ultimately find it very hard to take most of your criticism seriously (and I almost always take criticism very seriously), as you tend to point out problems in a very forced way, almost wanting them to be there. It makes me seriously wonder what kind of music you enjoy, at all.

I'll study music theory, of course, but I have to disagree with most of your points. I'm seriously not that bad.

[Nullifidian]

Re: Mechanical Flower

Everybody is terrible until they are good lol.
My standards come from a couple of years of collecting music and listening to a lot of ambient, classical, IDM, breakcore and freeform hardcore. A lot of these genres have big emotion-packed melodies and progressions.

I know you don't see it like I do right now, but consider reading them again a year later or something and you might just realize I do have a point. It's hard to deal with criticism when the only way you get any feedback is from opinions of people that you can argue with. In programming for example the criticism is just a big ass error screen that you can't argue with, but opinions are basically that (except a tad bit more diverse and less black and white).

If you want, I can post some examples of songs with (what I think are) great melodies and progressions, songs that create a particular mood, to get an idea of the stuff I listen to.

[mi40]

Re: Mechanical Flower

this aint planet karma but lets hope you get there in 10 years time

[Zaevod]

Re: Mechanical Flower

If you want, I can post some examples of songs with (what I think are) great melodies and progressions, songs that create a particular mood, to get an idea of the stuff I listen to.

Please do. I still think most of your criticism is a matter of taste, instead of actual technical problems, and I disagree with most of it. Many of the "problems" you pointed out were completely intentional, and many people have enjoyed them as they are. I'm not saying there aren't problems, but I'm sure there are lots of good things, too.

You think you're the only one who has listened to music for many years? Don't you think you're being a bit too arrogant, here?