A question about gays/lesbians

[JKPolk]

Re: A question about gays/lesbians

There's enough people on the planet that we could use some more gays/lesbians/people just plain not reproducing.

[ckj846]

Re: A question about gays/lesbians

I agree with you afro. Iw as thinking of homosexuality as a trait but it really isn't. I guess this thread brings in the idea of what it is to really be homosexual. I think that someone who is homosexual is basically a person who prefers someone of the same sex over someone of the opposite sex. It really just confuses me though because if homosexuality isn't passed from generation to generation, are you saying its a random mishap? It seems as though it is more of a hormonal imbalance during pregnancy.

A 1993 U.S. study found a correlation between male homosexuality and maternal lineage, suggesting that mothers have some special role in determining the sexual orientation of their male offspring. Studies since the 1960s (eg Slater, 1962) have noted that homosexual men tend to be the later-born among a group of siblings. Many recent studies (see Fraternal birth order) have indicated that homosexual men are more likely to have older brothers than the general male population. (This difference is not observed among women.)

A chemical called the histocompatibility Y-antigen (the "HY antigen") is found on the surface of the cells of male mammals. It is hypothesized (Wachtel, 1983; Blanchard & Bogaert, 1996) that the "fraternal birth order effect" may be related to increasing levels of antibodies produced by the mother in response to the presence of this chemical during pregnancy with the oldest son. These antibodies could then somehow trigger different brain development patterns in later male children, either in the uterus or in early childhood through breast milk. Later sons would then more likely to have a homosexual orientation as adults. At least one genetic study attempting to verify this theory claimed to find a correlation with a certain area of the X chromosome (of which all women carry two copies, and all men carry one), but these findings could not be replicated by other researchers.

An alternate theory was proposed by Italian researchers in 2004 (Camperio-Ciani et al. 2004), supported by a study of about 4,600 people who were the relatives of 98 homosexual and 100 heterosexual men. Female relatives of the homosexual men tended to have more offspring than those of the heterosexual men. Female relatives of the homosexual men on their mother's side tended to have more offspring than those on the father's side. The researchers concluded that there was genetic material being passed down on the X chromosome which both promotes fertility in the mother and homosexuality in her male offspring. The connections discovered, however, would explain only 20% of the cases studied, indicating that this might not be the sole genetic factor determining sexual orientation.

Wouldn't this maybe be a genetic mutation on the mother's behalf? Also:

Homosexuality has also been correlated with elevated testosterone levels in adult males, which may indicate an indirect genetic influence.

Interesting stuff here. =D
O_o

EDIT:

Maybe they just want to be different/get attention. I know that's true by some of the people I know >_<

But if they're truly gay/lesbian, well I suppose they found someone who makes them happy but they're of the same sex. To them it doesn't matter, because they truly love that person and decide that they are gay/lesbian.

And does it matter if it goes against natural selection? They aren't thinking, "Oh man, I love him, but oh darn! It goes against natural selection! I'm going to impact the human race out of 6 billion people!"

Although, if the whole world becomes gay/lesbian, then that would definately be a problem. I seriously doubt that would happen though.

Well the thing was, I was asking why they gays still existed if they didn't care about natural selection and they did not reproduce. Of course this lowered the population for future generations, but then if this WAS a genetic mutation (which I'm still not sure on) then why are there still homosexual people here? That was my real question.

Sorry for this extremely long post =/

[Afrobean]

Re: A question about gays/lesbians

Trying to find the roots of homosexuality is like trying to find the roots of S&M or pedophilia.

It's all environment, guys.

EDIT: By the way, notice how they use the word correlate. That's a fancy word meaning that as one goes up, the other changes. This however does not necessarily mean that one caused the other.

[Z3ratul]

Re: A question about gays/lesbians

However, from a sexual standpoint, it seems that homoesexuality would be the way to go. Your partner is more likely to be looking for the same relationship (sexually) as you are. For males, assuming buttsex and giving head doesn't bother you (it does me), it would seem to be a pretty sweet deal.

EDIT:

Trying to find the roots of homosexuality is like trying to find the roots of S&M or pedophilia.

It's all environment, guys.

Very good point.

[jewpinthethird]

Re: A question about gays/lesbians

Natural Selection means survival of the fittest. As you should well be aware, the human species is at the top of the food chain. Homosexuals are still members of the human species.

Homosexuality is not a trait that can be passed on from generation to generation. It's a genetic mutation, a mixed up combination of X and Y chromosomes, individual to each person. Just because someone is homosexual doesnt mean the are any less fit for survival than heterosexuals.

[Deaths_Melancholy]

Re: A question about gays/lesbians

Umm just posting my thoughts on this...

I think that the factors for being gay are hormonal and environmentally influenced. Now I know that the genes eventually control how much of what hormones you got going on in the blood, but you never know if the parents smoking or something affected that in the long run. Please do not flame me on this post as I do not hate any gay peoples untill they decide to make me uncomfortable by staring or something. Slight genetic differences can change a lot of things... I personally think it's more upbringing and environmental, as is with most things. I'm not saying that it isn't freedom of choice. There are probably a decent pecentage of gay people who do choose it without other factors. And now to answer the topic question. It cannot be just a gene that causes it, seeing as it just hasn't disappeared off the face of the planet, and genetic mutations take hundreds of years to form(as there are no offspring being produced to continue the gene spread. which is also now making me think whoever started this thread has no logic... If it isn't gone and nothing to spread the gene then it cannot be just the "gene" that makes it happen).

Overview: Cannot be just gene or it would've just dissappeared already.
My standpoint is that a "gene" could help but isn't the main factor

edit: forgot to throw into the overview that I AM NOT against gay people. I also have many gay friends and am usually comfortable with them around as long as they respect me and do not make me feel uncomfortable

edit2: in the main paragraph somewhere... meh.. more of my opinions.

[Z3ratul]

Re: A question about gays/lesbians

Situational perhaps? As are most things.

[Afrobean]

Re: A question about gays/lesbians

And what of the common homosexual behavior among animals? Do they all have mutant genes as well?

[BluE_MeaniE]

Re: A question about gays/lesbians

Situational perhaps? As are most things.

Most things are caused by a combination of genetic and environmental factors.

edit: forgot to throw into the overview that I AM NOT against gay people.

Oh, you are more than you think. Admit it first. Then you can fix it.

[Afrobean]

Re: A question about gays/lesbians

Most things are caused by a combination of genetic and environmental factors.

Even behavior? I'd say that behavior is by far more environment.

PS homosexuality is a behavior.

[Z3ratul]

Re: A question about gays/lesbians

Most things are caused by a combination of genetic and environmental factors.

Hence situational. -_-

Even behavior? I'd say that behavior is by far more environment.

PS homosexuality is a behavior.

I'd have to agree with you there. Unless people are saying that genetics determines behavior... in which case, there's no sense in talking about this because we fall back into that Determinism hole. It seems the debate right now is about whether or not homosexuality is a choice (environmental factors) or a fate (genetics). Which, as has been said, is probably situationally some combination (not necessarily balanced) of the two. If anybody has some emperical evidence that proves the case for one side or the other (like that book), I'd like to hear it.

[ckj846]

Re: A question about gays/lesbians

Natural selection is the process by which individual organisms with favorable traits are more likely to survive and reproduce. Natural selection works on the whole individual, but only the heritable component of a trait will be passed on to the offspring, with the result that favorable, heritable traits become more common in the next generation. Given enough time, this can lead to adaptation and speciation (see evolution).

Natural selection is the survial of the fittest to reproduce. Homosexuals obviously cannot reproduce.
O_o
Sorry, I didn't realize how many people posted. This is in reponse to jewpin's post.

[Deaths_Melancholy]

Re: A question about gays/lesbians

Most things are caused by a combination of genetic and environmental factors.


Oh, you are more than you think. Admit it first. Then you can fix it.

I don't get it...

[talisman]

Re: A question about gays/lesbians

afro there isn't "proof" either way... evidence that supports the environmental stance is also all correlational. It's a logical fallacy to assume that a certain position is incorrect when in reality it only may or may not be correct, especially when the alternative position is in the same state of flux.

Point is that there's evidence to both sides, and if you actually want to make a real argument, you should find some that supports yours instead of just dropping your opinion in a vacuum.

[Z3ratul]

Re: A question about gays/lesbians

Point is that there's evidence to both sides, and if you actually want to make a real argument, you should find some that supports yours instead of just dropping your opinion in a vacuum.

I prefer the vacuum personally.