So I went to church tonight....

[Izzy]

Re: So I went to church tonight....

Calm down.

Please do so yourself.

[Afrombean]

Re: So I went to church tonight....

You do realize that you're just going from "nothing -> energy" to "nothing -> matter -> energy", right? And that that's no smaller a logical leap?

WHO SAID IT HAD TO START WITH NOTHING HUH HUH

Because at that level of density, the line between matter and energy is most likely indistinguishable. Recall that energy and matter are interchangeable, so when I say "the Big Bang produced energy", I make no real distinction between energy as you think of it and matter.

I wouldn't go as far as to state it so simply, but that is a good point.

But then are you saying that the Big Bang CREATED matter/energy (under the argument that they're that malleable a form)? My understanding on it has always been that what there is what there is, and the Big Bang was merely a super expansion of all that there is from a point of singularities of sorts.

Perhaps you should clarify your original point/comment? I'm a little confused about where we're going here.

Meh. The difference of opinion I think is that I think you're saying the Big Bang created something and I'm thinking that all that was already existed and the Big Bang just exploded it all out.

Not that this has anything to do with religion, of course.

ps Izzy, he just copied what I had written above about how it is impossible to "refute" religion and how stupid it is to even try to attempt a real debate on it.

[Tokzic]

Re: So I went to church tonight....

hi guys i heard were talking about rElIgIoN

And, if something does exist that breaks the laws of science, science won't be able to explain it. So, I think it's a perfectly fine topic of debate.

So wait.

You think that everything beyond human comprehension is a fine topic for debate.

That's not a "debate", that's just taking turns with mindless speculation.

Anyway, I believe there is some unnatural force behind the creation of the universe, and I believe that same force is underneath everything in the fabric of reality. Unfortunately, it will forever be beyond our comprehension.

And I've never understood people who actually bother devoting themselves to organised religion. I keep hearing cute words like "self-improvement" and "enlightenment" but these things never actually happen in organised religion. If you're finding yourself improved by following other people's guides on how to live your life, you were never thinking about how to live your life in the first place.

Devoting any amount of time to assuming that someone's theory about how the unknown works is a waste of time. What cannot be understood will not be understood on this plane of existence, and pretending that it can be is intellectual suicide.

[Necros140606]

Re: So I went to church tonight....

GO AWAY GO AWAY GO AWAY

Holy ****. YOU CANNOT REFUTE IT. THAT IS A FUNDAMENTAL PRINCIPLE OF RELIGION. THIS IS WHY THE WHOLE **** IS RETARDED.

^ is why i dont talk about religion on forums.. I was actually proving your point. People try to refute it but cannot because it cannot be refuted.. but most of the people who try arent interested in religion and dont care anyway. And the ones who do dont put it that way anyway. Calm down.

sorry but afrobean is perfectly right

this third-class mental trick is just one of the absurdities religion claims to stand on. something that is not fakeable yet not provable is mere speculation. i hope we all agree on this. now, we could say that, religion, since it falls in this category, is not real. i wouldn't ever waste my time to worship something "that it is assumed to exist". church has a solution for this of course. faith has no need to be proven, yet the "miracles" are silly attemps of proving something that in its essence it's not supposed to be proven. just looking at all the contradictions of the church, without going as far as the contradiction of god itself (which was brought by church anyways), we could easily tell how everything is based on thin air.

now let me tell you another thing. missionaries today conformed to the modern world, so they appear as smiling saviors sent to teach the ignorant duders. heh. what about this. this is the biggest sign of arrogance of a secolar establishment towards a group of people. missionaries are just like those guys who stop you in the mid of the street and convince you to sign a life insurance contract. gimme a break. they're just trying to expand the religion everywhere not because it is right or it is useful to those populations (nay, it sometimes brings more evil than good, destroying their social organization and beliefs, therefore only causing chaos), but because they're in a constant fight with other religions and against miscredents in general. religion feeds on the mind of its prey. it will fall once people will start thinking with their own head, and this is partially happening right now.

faith is just a dog biting his own tail and never leads to anything, but again this is primarly a matter of going to the church or not, which is even worse since all churches and all religions stained themself with the worst of the worst. what we know about the killing of witches, the inquisition and the cruelty and repression of missionaries in america and all over the world is merely the top of th iceberg.

open your eyes. no reasonable person will ever accept a god and more importantly no good person would ever want to side with the organizations that recklessly killed millions of people more than any war ever.

[hahaujusdied]

Re: So I went to church tonight....

I disagree... I mission to people because I want them to see what I see, to experience what I do in my faith, because I have been blessed, and I want them to be too... but it is their choice and im not signing them to a contract..

There are many reasonable people that are christians/religious, but there are also unreasonable people that are religious. To say that all reasonable people are not religious is just naive.

Truthfully, your opinion is just fine to me, I understand where your coming from, I have many friends that detest religion... its not like im not seeing anyone else's viewpoint, dont take me the wrong way.

[Tokzic]

Re: So I went to church tonight....

I disagree... I mission to people because I want them to see what I see, to experience what I do in my faith, because I have been blessed, and I want them to be too... but it is their choice and im not signing them to a contract..

Missioning is a ridiculous notion. People make decisions for themselves, by themselves. If they want to know about your religion, they'll find information on it, and explore it as a possibility. Don't shove thoughts down people's throats.

[Necros140606]

Re: So I went to church tonight....

just by looking at all the evil the religions have been doing throughtout the history, even if i were an alien secretely watching over the earth for 2000 years, even if i did not understand the idea of god and watsover, i could easily tell how religion, brings HATRED, is an excuse to WAR, RACISM, INTOLLERANCE. some religious would not and did not hesitate to BURN people when they are themselves burned by the holy spirit of faith... religion is definitely EVIL.

[GuidoHunter]

just by looking at all the evil sex has been doing throughtout the history, even if i were an alien secretely watching over the earth for 2000 years, even if i did not understand the idea of coitus and watsover, i could easily tell how sex, brings HATRED, is an excuse to WAR, RACISM, INTOLLERANCE. some cuckolds would not and did not hesitate to BURN people when they are themselves cuckolded... sex is definitely EVIL.

Clearly, we need to abolish sex.

But then are you saying that the Big Bang CREATED matter/energy (under the argument that they're that malleable a form)? My understanding on it has always been that what there is what there is, and the Big Bang was merely a super expansion of all that there is from a point of singularities of sorts.

Meh. The difference of opinion I think is that I think you're saying the Big Bang created something and I'm thinking that all that was already existed and the Big Bang just exploded it all out.

I think I'm just going a step farther in asking where that singularity came from. The Big Bang itself is indeed just the expansion from the singularity; my point was that whether you look at it as an explosion of the tiny ball of matter/energy or just an explosion of energy is effectively equivalent. Either way you have an ourpouring of energy from a limitless source which can neither be described nor predicted.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

[Afrobean]

Re: So I went to church tonight....

I think I'm just going a step farther in asking where that singularity came from. The Big Bang itself is indeed just the expansion from the singularity; my point was that whether you look at it as an explosion of the tiny ball of matter/energy or just an explosion of energy is effectively equivalent. Either way you have an ourpouring of energy from a limitless source which can neither be described nor predicted.

Yeah, but that's just an extension of the fact that we know nothing of "before" the Big Bang and likely never will.

[MystictheHedgehog]

Re: So I went to church tonight....

now let me tell you another thing. missionaries today conformed to the modern world, so they appear as smiling saviors sent to teach the ignorant duders. heh. what about this. this is the biggest sign of arrogance of a secolar establishment towards a group of people. missionaries are just like those guys who stop you in the mid of the street and convince you to sign a life insurance contract. gimme a break. they're just trying to expand the religion everywhere not because it is right or it is useful to those populations (nay, it sometimes brings more evil than good, destroying their social organization and beliefs, therefore only causing chaos), but because they're in a constant fight with other religions and against miscredents in general. religion feeds on the mind of its prey. it will fall once people will start thinking with their own head, and this is partially happening right now.

Your ignorance is showing with the missionaries statement buddy. I agree with you on one thing, those pricks who stand in the middle of the streets and condemn you to hell unless you take his fliers are ridiculous. But missionaries? Do you even know what one actually does? Do you think they go, gather up a tribe, and immediately do the thing that bullhorn guy does in the middle of the streets? My previous experiences with a mission work, is the missionary goes over to some area where Christianity has not been heard, and lives there for a while, learning the language, making friends, and slowly mentioning it to the friends they are making.

And that missionaries are doing it because of some battle with other religions, that is plain retarded. Yeah Sally, let's go and leave everything we know and love, go to a 3rd world country, live there for 10 years, risk our lives other religions are forbidden to be mentioned by some law by the government. Yeah, they are totally doing it because they hate other religions.

that recklessly killed millions of people more than any war ever.

Love to hear your facts on this one.

Missioning is a ridiculous notion. People make decisions for themselves, by themselves. If they want to know about your religion, they'll find information on it, and explore it as a possibility. Don't shove thoughts down people's throats.

The whole point of Missioning is spreading your religion to those who haven't heard it yet. Not to go and inform Bob down the street that he is going to hell. This is called witnessing. Witnessing, though similar, is not being a missionary.

And nice generalization at the end, that all missionaries are trying to shove religion down your throat. With the exception of bullhorn guy that stands in the middle of streets, religious people don't try to shove it down your throat. In fact, a lot of people in this area are scared as crap to mention religion to anyone, even their best friends, because they may take it as "shoving down their throat"

[devonin]

Re: So I went to church tonight....

I had such hopes for this thread. Ah well, now we know why religion is generally not a topic that lasts long in this forum.

Hey Tass, can you rig me up a private forum to be as to CT what FFYa is the TGB? Please?