What, to you, makes a game epic/fun?

[Reach]

Re: What, to you, makes a game epic/fun?

A few games immediately come to my mind -- Zelda: Ocarina of Time, Chrono Trigger, Final Fantasy 7, Super Mario RPG, DKC2


Sometimes I can't even pinpoint it. In general though, I feel like I can break it down into these general categories:

-Long gameplay
-Diversity of environments
-Memorable soundtracks
-Memorable characters
-Fun sidequests and hidden goodies
-Large world
-Not too easy, not too hard

Note: Graphics are *almost* a non-factor for me. Pretty visuals work well, but they aren't the first things that come to mind when I think of awesome games.

What do you guys think?

I can agree with most of these factors. The difficulty of a game is a really important factor for me personally though. I can't stand it when a game is too easy.

I LOVED the new donkey kong game for the wii, even more so than the classic games, mostly because the difficulty was perfect. It gives the game a sense of epicness when you complete a really challenging, but fun level.


Final fantasy 7, for example, meets all of those categorical demands other than difficulty IMO. It still irks me to this day that the game gets so bloody easy near the end and I have to run from every battle to avoid leveling up at all for there to be any challenge. 8 and 9 are notorious for this too; though, they're entertaining to beat at level 1. A lot of the final fantasy games suffer from this actually; other than 12 and 13, all of the new gen are way too easy (and then 12 and 13 were criticized on other grounds).



One factor I would mention; sense of control over where the game is going, even if it's an illusion. Players don't like to have their choices limited and for the game to appear 'linear'. Even if the game is linear (e.g. final fantasy 9), there has to be a sense of control and non-linearity (e.g. an overworld) or people seriously dislike the game (FF13). If players are too overtly being forced to simply move from one area to another, it takes away a lot from a game, in pretty much every genre (even games that are purely linear, like Mario Bros., have lots of potentially different ways to go or to backtrack through).

[Reincarnate]

Re: What, to you, makes a game epic/fun?

FFX was actually the only 3D FF game that kicked my ass with difficulty near the end (Braska's Final Aeon). Safer Sephiroth, though, from FF7? Wayyyy too easy.


Agreed on the linearity concept.

[Reincarnate]

Re: What, to you, makes a game epic/fun?

I am still curious about storylines. Which storylines do you enjoy? Are you content with "good bad must stop bad guy from dominating world"? Or do you need something deeper? If so, what? What do you look for?

[Reach]

Re: What, to you, makes a game epic/fun?

FFX was actually the only 3D FF game that kicked my ass with difficulty near the end (Braska's Final Aeon). Safer Sephiroth, though, from FF7? Wayyyy too easy.


Agreed on the linearity concept.

FFX was challenging if you stuck to the main plot. If you did any of the side quests before fighting the final aeon it was kind of LOL (Given the game mechanics, 69 strength equates to 9999 average damage, but strength can go up to 255, and only 148 is required for 99999).

I am still curious about storylines. Which storylines do you enjoy? Are you content with "good bad must stop bad guy from dominating world"? Or do you need something deeper? If so, what? What do you look for?

I don't put too much weight on the story. At least, I didn't in the past. It just has to be entertaining. That in and of itself is enjoyable for me in a video game. Good guys stopping bad guys is usually sufficient if the characters are likable.

As technology gets better though, and game scripts get more elaborate, I'll probably put more emphasis on story. Especially with voice acting, many scripts have the opportunity to be pretty unique, so I expect something original from the story.

[Sakish]

Re: What, to you, makes a game epic/fun?

Concerning FFX, most of you live in the US and probably never played the international version which allowed you to fight the dark aeons and "Penance" Penance alone was about an 70 minute battle of pure attacking and making perfect turns. Dont get me started on Dark Magus Sisters, when one of them has instant death on a multi skill, the battle gets boring

[Duplica]

Re: What, to you, makes a game epic/fun?

Re-playability for me is the ability to sit down and marathon it, the simplicity of the game (I hate games with too much stuff going on or stuff to collect/combine or whatever) and the overall raw gameplay. Take Megaman X for example: I can sit down and beat the whole game in one sitting, the game is just the right difficulty and the powerups are really fun to get. It's not visually amazing to today's standards, but it really doesn't matter. Then you have games like Call of Duty that bombard you with details and lacks just plain simple gameplay.

[Arch0wl]

Re: What, to you, makes a game epic/fun?

Thank you for making this topic. Extracting the elements of your aesthetic of any artistic medium is extremely fun to do; I have a few files listing what criteria make an entertaining novel for me, and lately I've been doing the same for games.

A third person camera.

To be "epic" you need to crop dramatic views. You cannot crop with a first-person camera; the players must create the view themselves, which is problematic as they will instead be focused on killing things in front of them.

For example, this:



is able to create drama just by the way it is cropped.

But this:



is the angle that most game characters will be viewed with in a first-person camera. There is no cinematic quality to this view. Yes, it's shot as we would most likely experience it in real life. And real life is less exciting than fiction.

A strong narrative.

This is why I don't like sandbox games. There is a "tinkering" quality to these games which makes me feel less like I am experiencing a story and more like I am playing with really advanced toys. Choose-your-own-adventure games, to me, fall under this category: unless the choice is provided for a reason and alters the overarching narrative in a meaningful way, it's choice for the sake of choice. I used to read choose-your-own-adventure books as a kid. I didn't like them.

A semi-romantic aesthetic.

By "romantic" I don't mean romantic as in romance (flowers, chocolate, Nicholas Sparks, etc) -- I mean romantic as in romanticism, as opposed to realism.

One of the more annoying thing Western game designers have done is trend toward realistic game models. This is unfortunate, because my suspension of disbelief is instantly ruined the second I see a game model try to talk to me. Game designers are terrible at making realistic facial expressions, and it is much easier to use my imagination and project emotions on an unrealistic face than to watch a realistic computerized face make some distorted, blank smile. Fallout 3 is the worst offender that I've seen lately.

Text instead of voice acting.

Unlike CG faces, voice acting is done by humans and yet it's even less believable in most games than any CG face I've had to endure. I cannot take a game with bad voice acting seriously. Unless a company has the budget to hire really good voice actors, I would rather they avoid voice actors altogether.

Avoiding trite themes.

For example,

- gritty "realism" (see: almost every FPS)
- almost every anime JRPG
- overdone medieval WRPG
- dark, dickflick sci-fi visuals

Motifs

I like games with recurring themes. In Chrono Trigger, each character had a theme, and in Dragonball Z there were recurring themes for specific moods the show wanted to set. Games that do this are usually far more memorable than games that don't.

---

This is all that I can remember off the top of my head, but hopefully you enjoyed reading it.

[dAnceguy117]

Re: What, to you, makes a game epic/fun?

great post, arch. good point about the camera. I would argue that first-person has its moments, though. attempts at "putting the player directly into the action" often don't fully pan out, but the results are pretty remarkable when they do.

[Reincarnate]

Re: What, to you, makes a game epic/fun?

yeah really good point about the third person view... I never took that into consideration before

[who_cares973]

Re: What, to you, makes a game epic/fun?

i game that has everything i could want from a game other than OoT is probably metroid prime. i consider it to be one of the best FP games ever made

[virus003]

Re: What, to you, makes a game epic/fun?

Ahh, I've been waiting for something like this to come along.


A good game that comes to mind for me is pretty much any FF game.


My favorite FF out of the whole series is IX, I'm not sure why, I just always find it to be a fun game, and it always tells messages about life, and the characters have a really cool background.

As for the storylines, my personal preference is a storyline that is challenging, but something that I can actually do. FFIX fit that criteria perfectly. I have about 49 hours of gameplay on my psp from playing for about a week, the game just amazes me, I love all the characters, (except for Steiner, lol he's an ass) but characters like Zidane, are really good characters to put into a storyline, he fights for what he believes in and is always willing to help others.

Of course, classic games like Zelda OoT come close to this, but I'd have to say FF7 would be my second, it's of course pretty much the same as FF9, I just find this one less addicting, so it's really a personal preference for me.

[ddrace]

Re: What, to you, makes a game epic/fun?

Usually if the game can get me hooked and make me want to continue playing it, that's usually a pretty good game. I play lots of FPS games and I have finished most of them. The ones I didn't finish either A. didn't get me hooked or B. the gameplay just sucked. An example of a bad FPS game was the recent Wolfenstein. I just cannot finish that game no matter what I do. Now a game that I've played through multiple times is Prey. Great storyline, amazing gameplay, awesome level design, great boss fights, and over the top weapons. There just aren't that many games like that. My biggest grip about games usually is how they end. Many games I've played build up to a climax then there is no climax. Singularity and Area 51 are good examples of that. The games themselves were good, but the endings sucked.

[-Barista-]

Re: What, to you, makes a game epic/fun?

Some elements that help make a game fun . . . something that changes. I like online games like CoD because the people don't do the same thing (most of the time) in matches. Every game you play will be unique.

Same goes for chess and rhythm games too to a lower extent.

Things that require skill or precision is another. KH fight with Sephiroth would be an example. Can't just go button mashing and hope to win. He'll tear your ass apart in seconds.

I'm sure there's more to it than that for fun but that's the main thing for me.


Elements that make a game epic to me include storyline and character development//characters in general (if there's either), how fun it is, and action. If there is explosions and crazy stuff going on then I'll think of it as epic. Example of something crazy, Isaac from DS2 flying through space dodging debris and by some retarded stroke of luck crashes into an air vent. Sounds kind of stupid but it was epic.

Graphics also play a small part too but not so much.

All of that to me is what makes stuff epic//fun.

[Reincarnate]

Re: What, to you, makes a game epic/fun?

Do you guys prefer plots with huge twists or something more predictable?

[Shikari]

Re: What, to you, makes a game epic/fun?

IMO, huge twists. Xenogears, for example. That storyline was intense. An immense timeline, a good number of relevant characters, like Fei, Elly, Citan, Emeralda (who is related to one of the previous reincarnations of Fei), Krelian, Myang, Deus. All of them has great importancy in the story, explaining like 99% of the "mysteries" of the storyline. If Xenogears was a book, I'd read it over and over.


About the gameplay, a good game must be a fusion between, for example, Devil May Cry, where you have 3rd camera and free control of your character, and Final Fantasy Tactics, where you can train your character to make it learn a job/skill, making this character as you want. And, yes, it must has a shitload of hidden things and sub-quests, to make the game long and interesting. I don't think a long game to reach the 100%, like Oblivion IV and Fallout III, is boring, it's fun to think that you have to spend hours and hours and hours to actually beat the game.

For graphics, I neve played Okami, but graphics like that, that seems like a drawing and something "oriental", pleases me. It makes the game beautiful, good-looking.

Soundtrack must be decent. Not excellent, but decent. I mean, "energetic" tracks for normal battles, epic symphonic pieces for relevant battles, like boss bastles, something "mysterious" for walking (I'd love to "hang out" with my character listening to those random, "horror" sounds from the Shadow Temple, on TLoZ: Ocarina of Time).

Well, that pretty much sums what I think about a game must has to be rated as "epic".



Edit: Another thing that is important and fun to me is the "multi-ending" factor, like Castlevania: Symphony of the Night and Chrono Trigger has. Makes you play again to see how the ending will be like if you do this, but don't that, if you do everything, if you do partially nothing (just rush to the ending).