Super Smash Brothers Brawl

[slickskater29]

Re: Super Smash Brothers Brawl: Release Date Announced

YES! SSBM drama, i thought it was all over. MLG has it right. The rules are set up so that nothing but raw skill wins matches. End.

[KKKEEENNN]

Re: Super Smash Brothers Brawl: Release Date Announced

I like wavedashing, but really, it's doesn't really win you matches, it just makes you faster but that's it. Besides,I don't believe wavedash will be in Brawl it since it's using the Havok Physics engine, so it probably not possible, but we will have to wait to see when it is released.

[Squeek]

Re: Super Smash Brothers Brawl: Release Date Announced

Le sigh. Can we please be done with this?

I don't know if you've read my three thousand other posts about this, but I've said it many times before. Removing items removes my skill. I don't even care what the item is. It could be Mr. Saturn! The most pointless item in the entire game! That's all I ask for! Something to throw.

Now look. I don't care about competition. I don't care about rules, tournaments, champions, whatever. I just want to see if anyone is as good as I am at this game. Unfortunately, even in completely un-regulated non-tournament situations, you would all justify a loss against me as not being able to wavedash, or me needing items to win.

Isn't that sad?

Anyway, since Brawl (the game this thread is about!) is confirmed to be online play, I'll be much more able to test my skill against other players. Of course, if wavedashing happens to be in this game, I'll forbid it being used against me because I consider it cheating. And of course, I'd leave items in because they're intended for gameplay.

If you can't win under the standard rules of play, then it's pretty sad. To me, needing wavedashing is like needing sunglasses in a poker tournament because you can't hide your facial expression when you get a good hand. And to me, asking to remove items is like asking to remove all the cards that would give you a bad hand.

[masterhickle]

Re: Super Smash Brothers Brawl: Release Date Announced

I agree with Squeek and KKKEEENNN.

Can we please be done with this?

Wavedashing is helpful, but it won't guarantee you a win. A friend of mine doesn't use any ATs (outside of L cancelling, I think), and he's easily better than I am.



On the brawl note...

I'm curious to hear what characters people are considering as mains (unless you like to play randomly). Right now, I'm thinking about maining Pit =P.

[tsugomaru]

Re: Super Smash Brothers Brawl: Release Date Announced

To be honest, giving us an option menu to disable items doesn't mean they're asking us to ban items.

They're giving us the option to disable, not the command to ban.

~Tsugomaru

[KKKEEENNN]

Re: Super Smash Brothers Brawl: Release Date Announced

Le sigh. Can we please be done with this?

I don't know if you've read my three thousand other posts about this, but I've said it many times before. Removing items removes my skill. I don't even care what the item is. It could be Mr. Saturn! The most pointless item in the entire game! That's all I ask for! Something to throw.

Certain people don't mind items on, like me, but you are going to always see some common "pro" saying that item are for chumps. I think you have to get the idea that you have to ignore that.

Now look. I don't care about competition. I don't care about rules, tournaments, champions, whatever. I just want to see if anyone is as good as I am at this game. Unfortunately, even in completely un-regulated non-tournament situations, you would all justify a loss against me as not being able to wavedash, or me needing items to win.

Isn't that sad?

Maybe, but they don't like random things to happen, so they cut that off to make it fair for them. I can beat you with items on, and probably without the use of wavedash, but wavedashing is like an addition once someone do it a lot, so it's not that easy to not wavedash you know.

Anyway, since Brawl (the game this thread is about!) is confirmed to be online play, I'll be much more able to test my skill against other players. Of course, if wavedashing happens to be in this game, I'll forbid it being used against me because I consider it cheating. And of course, I'd leave items in because they're intended for gameplay.

If you can't win under the standard rules of play, then it's pretty sad. To me, needing wavedashing is like needing sunglasses in a poker tournament because you can't hide your facial expression when you get a good hand. And to me, asking to remove items is like asking to remove all the cards that would give you a bad hand.

Cheating? I don't consider it cheating in any way. Now, having 0% after every hit that a character has taken or KO'ing everybody with a weak attack (like standard A). That's cheating. Wavedashing is not cheating. The character still can get hit no matter where in the wavedash. It's not always guarantee to be perform perfectly, even the most skill people mess up. If used wrong at a edge of a stage, the character will dodge the edge and SD. Wavedashing is useful, but it has its flaws like anything else.

Besides, putting sunglasses on in poker barely changes anything. Eyes may tell a good hand in poker, but if you familiarize the opponents with their body gestures, you can also see if they have a good hand or not.

[IronJesus]

Re: Super Smash Brothers Brawl: Release Date Announced

Good point. If you don't know how to exploit the game to do a "wavedash" it can get annoying though. Like my buddy who plays as Falco. He uses every little thing he can to boost his speed and it's so hard to hit him. (I eventually got him, then got pwned. :P). Another expample would be doing a double-shot in Halo 2. Great exploit but my god can it get annoying when you can't do it and you face people who can.

[Squeek]

Re: Super Smash Brothers Brawl: Release Date Announced

Sorry, but to me, wavedashing will always be cheating.

Why? It's exploiting game code to your advantage.

If you can't play without it, it just means you suck at the game. Simple as that.

I 100% completed the game without needing to wavedash. That includes the Diskun trophy, which sucked to get, both for No-Damage Clear and Very Hard No-Continue clear. That's a perfectly good accomplishment to me as most people can't even get all 290 trophies.

But please. Can we just DROP this. This thread is not about what was in Super Smash Brothers Melee tournaments. It's about Super Smash Brothers Brawl. Nothing of the sort has been confirmed or denied, so there's no telling what's going to happen.

The only thing we can argue concerning Melee and Brawl is the items, and I've already said my piece on that.

[masterhickle]

Re: Super Smash Brothers Brawl: Release Date Announced

Giving us the item options menu gives us the option to do what we wish with items.

At that, I drop this, and try to get this thread back to what it's supposed to be about. We're beating a dead horse at this point - every side of this debate has been covered.

To each his own style, as long as you have fun with it.

[tsugomaru]

Re: Super Smash Brothers Brawl: Release Date Announced

And if you're a good player, you should also be able to dodge thrown items at you. It's not completely random that you will get hit, you can control that.

Or item power ups for the matter. I know every single item and how to deal with their abilities.

~Tsugomaru

[Shamo0]

Re: Super Smash Brothers Brawl: Release Date Announced

All I'm saying is that, wavedashing has become standardized. It's a exploit that the active community uses. It doesn't change the fact that it's an exploit, but it does change the fact that it has become standardized. Like it or not, it's not deemed as cheating to the active and well established community. It's a multiplayer game, and it's a technique that takes skill to use and apply correctly. It's wrong to just call it cheating and unfair simply because you don't want to put in the time committment yourself like many others have done to do it consecutively. It's become standardize by the community. The community controls multiplayer gaming believe it or not. Don't like the way the community plays-- don't play, simple. Like I said before no one is forcing you to play by these settings. If you don't want to play using no items and wavedashing or any other advance tech go ahead, but if you lose there is nothing to be said other than the fact that you aren't as dedicated with the game as the person you were facing.

Every character can perform the maneuver. So the people who actually took time to actually practice the game and play it A LOT more than any other players should have a say in what stays and what goes for standardized play-- especially when they always put more time into the game then the person that is saying wavedashing is unfair all the time. The active community has decided it's not cheating. If the people that dislike wavedashing actually took the time and stood there stance and played the game as much as the hardcore players maybe wavedashing would be considered something different. But it isn't and the simple reason is, is because those players simply don't care enough and don't put as much time into the game. Why should anyone listen to players that don't even actually put in the play time compared to all the active community members? If you want to prove a point practice the game using your play style and beat them while they are using theirs use yours and win. I'm sure if you can win using the way you play it would have a huge impact especially if it was at something like MLG where the best players around the world participate. But the chances of that happening, like you or anyone that doesn't approve of tournament play actually being dedicated enough to practice and change the views of a community of a game is extremely slim.

It's like state representation. The bigger states have more reps: The most active community has the biggest say. It's a pretty simple concept. Call it what you want. Say what you think it is. It doesn't change the impression of the tactic by the active community since you probably don't even want to put in the time commitment to either learn it yourself or stand by your opinion and participate in tournaments.

Also if you honestly think someone who took the time to perform wavedashing consecutively without fail in battle and apply it to different tactics can't win without using wavedashing against someone that plays without a high level of dedication you are delirious.

This isn't directed at anyone in particular, It's directed at everyone that doesn't approve of wavedashing and ones that would call it unfair and people that don't like the currently favored tournament play settings.

[bythenines]

Re: Super Smash Brothers Brawl: Release Date Announced

WOOOOOO!!! can't wait!

[zidart]

Re: Super Smash Brothers Brawl: Release Date Announced

diddy kong moves is the update of today. i don't know why but i'm not really exited with this character o.o, i wanna know the other 2 moves of ike XD.

[ckj846]

Re: Super Smash Brothers Brawl: Release Date Announced

Shamo0, you're stupid. You're basing your whole argument on what a gaming community says. It's still an exploit. It was not intended to be in the game. Using it to your advantage IS cheating. Who cares if everyone else uses it? When you're driving, EVERYONE speeds and breaks the speed limit. Does that make it legal? Of course not, it's still illegal. It's the same thing here, just because everybody has seen it as "standardized" doesn't mean that it is necessarily "fair" and "legit." I've played SSBM for a long time and I never took the time to practice wavedashing. You know why? Because I would rather sit there and play the game instead of sitting in training mode for hours doing the same thing over and over and ruining my controlller. That's my PREFERENCE. And that is what Nintendo intended, a game that people can play and have fun while getting better in their own ways.

Wavedashing is a glitch. Now shut up and talk about Brawl. Jesus.

O_o

[masterhickle]

Re: Super Smash Brothers Brawl: Release Date Announced

Wavedashing is programmed into the AR, but exploits the game's physics. Now shut up and talk about Brawl. Jesus.

Agreed