TWG Turbo III Game Thread Knife in the Bahamas

[mellonxcollie]

Re: TWG Turbo III Game Thread Knife in the Bahamas

I don't know??

It was a hasty move, but it doesn't necessarily mean it was bad; that's an opinion on what happened.

I don't care about looking good, I care about this lynch being a surefire wolf hit otherwise gg another game foiled by town self-destructing d0 surrounded by a shitstorm of nothingness with EoDs.

yeah... I don't like this response

It was a hasty move, yes, but it was also an objectively bad move. I think you should have that opinion after thinking back on it...

You should definitely care about looking good as a human. As a human, the only person you KNOW isn't a wolf is yourself. self-preservation is important at this point because if you make yourself look sketchy, you KNOW you're helping town lose.

[_Zenith_]

Re: TWG Turbo III Game Thread Knife in the Bahamas

I've been unwilling to call Tokzic a wolf for this exact reason. If he is actually red then defending an opinion literally nobody else shares is ballsy as fuck.

Tokzic is full of shit but I'm not sure whether full of shit scum or full of shit town.

I literally can't scumread anyone today because I'm shit at this game but I guess I'd lynch Tokzic cause he's "the scummiest"

Okay.

Tokzic

Despite juckter literally have 0 direction in scumreading (admitting to not being able to develop a scumread), he must've felt pressured into voting Tokzic by Charu but he keeps flipflopping his read on Tokzic??????

Most of juckter is following someone else's direction in the game, and without developing even the slightest true scumread (I use true here in the sense that his reads are heavily influenced on others) leaves me to believe he isn't of town. Town naturally needs to point fingers at people even if it's bullshit, you need to stir the mixing pot of players to form content. Even if it winds up getting heated, it's still what needs to be done period.

I'm very confident Juckter being lynched is one wolf down.

---

If juckter is lynched and flips wolf and Charu lives through the night, Charu is a suspect.

[_Zenith_]

Re: TWG Turbo III Game Thread Knife in the Bahamas

yeah... I don't like this response

It was a hasty move, yes, but it was also an objectively bad move. I think you should have that opinion after thinking back on it...

You should definitely care about looking good as a human. As a human, the only person you KNOW isn't a wolf is yourself. self-preservation is important at this point because if you make yourself look sketchy, you KNOW you're helping town lose.

If my vote led a rushed vote soon after, it would've pinned that player. Not saying this was the intention, but it's the counterpoint to your argument about that play.

[_Zenith_]

Re: TWG Turbo III Game Thread Knife in the Bahamas

The topic of "neutrality" came into play last phase with MML/Myself

Nobody iso'd Juckter who is arguably the most neutral in this game with his huge post and his:

Could you unvote until you explain why? I'm pretty sure you are town and I don't want a retarded insta to happen before I can (try to) defend myself

[mellonxcollie]

Re: TWG Turbo III Game Thread Knife in the Bahamas

Most of juckter is following someone else's direction in the game, and without developing even the slightest true scumread (I use true here in the sense that his reads are heavily influenced on others) leaves me to believe he isn't of town. Town naturally needs to point fingers at people even if it's bullshit, you need to stir the mixing pot of players to form content. Even if it winds up getting heated, it's still what needs to be done period.

I definitely agree with this point, as well as the one about neutrality. Juckter has appeared to be super neutral all game. It's been very hard for me to read him and he doesn't go into depth about anything. Any time I do think of something about him, it's not really alignment indicative. Also the way that he pops in and out of the thread conveniently... I know that coming from me this isn't much of an argument, but it seems like he just pops in to post a few nothing posts here and there, just to keep up appearances.

I understand why he asked you not to vote, what I don't understand is why he just disappeared and hasn't been back to defend himself. If he had defended himself and then disappeared I could understand, but the way he did it makes it look like he is making excuses

[mellonxcollie]

Re: TWG Turbo III Game Thread Knife in the Bahamas

Also it's looking like I am going to be dragged downtown to a convention lol, I'm not sure if I will be here for EoD. I'll place my vote before I go but I'd like to wait as long as possible

[juckter1]

Re: TWG Turbo III Game Thread Knife in the Bahamas

Juckter is still confusing the hell out of me. What interesting things did you find after viewing those vote counts, Juckter?

Ok, I'll explain my thoughts.

First of all, this post here:

I went from hesitantly believing him to completely believing him when his claim earned him MORE VOTES.

Wolves would immediately know that the claim was real and hop on it, I'm pretty sure both wolves are on that wagon.

Sorry to whatever townies were voting ATN but I don't think that looked like a fakeclaim at all, I think that was a dumb lynch and you should feel bad.

The bolded statement is reeeeally strange, and the defense that "fakeclaiming is dumb" doesn't hold up because that is one of the only things you can do to save yourself from a lynch when EoD is so near (Yes, we now know that claim was true, but that's irrelevant).

However, if Tokzic is a wolf, then he definitely had sufficient evidence to trust that claim was true, which might have made him slip.

In a world with a Tokzic/mellon scumteam, the list of checks looks like this

roundbox checked wineandbread
charu checked mellonxcollie
Zenith checked Tokzic
arnt checked wineandbread
juckter checked charu
Tokzic checked wineandbread

That means they could instantly discard both zenith and charu as seers, leaving only round, arnt, and I as possible seers. After arnt's lynch, even if he wasn't the actual seer, it would have been easy for them to hunt down round and I. Since at that point arnt was fairly likely to be the seer, it's not strange that Tokzic would believe his claim.

Additionally, from their perspective, the votecount would end up like this:

Tokzic - mellon
Arnt - Charu, MML, round, juckter
MML - Tokzic
Not Voting - wineandbread, Arnt

That would mean that the wagon on Arnt would be entirely town, and so they would be able to mislynch in that wagon with relative ease on day 1, since you'd expect at least one wolf to be in that wagon. Of course, an all-green wagon seems hard to believe, but IMO, Arnt's was obvious enough for it to happen.

With a Tokzic/Charu team, the list would be even cleaner

roundbox checked wineandbread
charu checked mellonxcollie
Zenith checked Tokzic
arnt checked wineandbread
juckter checked charu
Tokzic checked wineandbread

In this scenario, they can instantly discard all claims except for round's and arnt's, so once the wagon on Arnt was formed, they would definitely be able to remove the seer from the game on either the first day or the first night.

From their perspective, the votecount would end up like this:

Tokzic - mellon
Arnt - Charu, MML, round, juckter
MML - Tokzic
Not Voting - wineandbread, Arnt

This makes the wagon on Arnt much more normal than in the previous case, but it is still dominated by the town and it allows them to mislynch inside that wagon the next day because of how town-align Charu seemed to everyone.

This is the least interesting of the three possible teams, the only notable thing here is that the wagon on Arnt would be entire town, allowing them to mislynch inside that wagon. However, I believe this team to be the most unlikely.

tl;dr: Tokzic's post doesn't makes sense as town, but it makes sense as a scumslip.

[juckter1]

Re: TWG Turbo III Game Thread Knife in the Bahamas

I'll be away for about an hour and a half, see you then

[mellonxcollie]

Re: TWG Turbo III Game Thread Knife in the Bahamas

I understand where you're going with that post, Juckter. It's certainly displaying some original thought at least.

I guess my question would be, why would you assume that the wolf team would consider those claims to be truthful? I automatically assume that literally everything literally every player says on D0 is a joke. Like, if I were Tokzic and Zenith said he checked Tokzic, I would assume that he was just saying some BS and ignore him. It wouldn't make me think he was or was not the cop, it would be a null joke.

I do agree that the post you quoted is super weird. Why would the wolves know that the claim was real...? Given what I've just said about joking on D0, and also the fact that the wolves shouldn't have any idea about who has power roles other than wolf-team roles.

[Tokzic]

Re: TWG Turbo III Game Thread Knife in the Bahamas

Why would the wolves know that the claim was real...?

I can't believe how much I have to grapple with people about this very simple concept.

Imagine you are The Wolfs in this format. Some guy who is not your clan is on the block. In reaction to pressure, he claims Seer.

Given that greens claiming Seer is really anti-town, and doesn't happen very often, I posit that The Wolfs would therefore either know or be confident they landed on the Seer, and might even be antsy to hammer him.

[Tokzic]

Re: TWG Turbo III Game Thread Knife in the Bahamas

The bolded statement is reeeeally strange,

I think maybe I was too hasty to say that there are two wolves on the wagon, especially with the Roundbox kill. If enough town were on it it would make sense to have one person keeping their vote doing nothing somewhere else to avoid attracting attention.

But I maintain that statistically, at least one of two wolves in that situation would be like "oh shit, I'm totally going to make sure we kill the Seer!"

and the defense that "fakeclaiming is dumb" doesn't hold up because that is one of the only things you can do to save yourself from a lynch when EoD is so near (Yes, we now know that claim was true, but that's irrelevant).

Green fake-claiming Seer in this format IS SUPER DUMB. It brings out the real Seer, puts the

"The only things you can do to save yourself?" It didn't save him! It killed him, even!! The decisive votes - Roundbox and juck - came AFTER THE HARDCLAIM.

*bunch of universes with me as wolf*

lmao wow

[Tokzic]

Re: TWG Turbo III Game Thread Knife in the Bahamas

roundbox fucking died because he was townreading me and he was FUCKING RIGHT and the wolves are AFRAID OF OUR POWER

i will solve this game for you, roundbox, i swear it

[Tokzic]

Re: TWG Turbo III Game Thread Knife in the Bahamas

Green fake-claiming Seer in this format IS SUPER DUMB. It brings out the real Seer, puts the

"Puts"? Where was I going with this?

I guess what I'm saying is it potentially shifts all the lynching attention away from reds.

But mostly, it can bring out the real Seer over nothing. That's not worth one saved green at all.

[thesunfan]

Re: TWG Turbo III Game Thread Knife in the Bahamas

AA will be your temp mod for tonight

anyone in the Detroit area that wants to hang out between tomorrow and Wed hmu

[_Zenith_]

Re: TWG Turbo III Game Thread Knife in the Bahamas

This is an exciting phase I'm enthralled to be present right now.