Jamais Vu [93 or 94]

[TC_Halogen]

Re: Jamais Vu [93 or 94]

This thread turned more about normalization of other difficulties around this particular song, hahaha.

And rather than looking at it as EP: 93 -> 92, you should look at it as AQD: 92 -> 93. EP's 250 BPM jumpstream at the end clocks in at 16.66 NPS, but with jumps every quarter note (and an instance of two 8th note jumps), you're looking at above 20 NPS collectively. With the nasty split-handed burst placement in the 32nds and the overall density of the file making the file considerably harder to read than most constant high-level files (Jamais Vu's 230 BPM jumpstream could be constituted as easier to read), EP probably shouldn't be a 92. However, the structure is simple -- the hardest part of the song requires you to haul ass, but that's all.

A Quick Death also shares the same 250 BPM structure as EP, but the simplicity of patterns found in EP is nowhere to be found in AQD -- the patterns are outright disgusting. It's not quite as stamina draining, but it is incredibly difficult to get a good score on due to nasty burst patterning and strange transitions into and out of 32nd walls. You would think this file is easy to score on with jumptrilling being the basis of getting around the large 32nd walls, but there are some 32nd bursts that start on either up and down arrows and end on split handed jumps, forcing you to do split-handed jumptrills to even stand a chance.

Jamais Vu takes the rough patterning of A Quick Death outside of the bursts and brings the density of EP's ending at a very constant pace, because unlike the other two files mentioned above, Jamais Vu is downright relentless with jump-usage, very frequently using 8th note jumps and occasionally 16th note jump pairing in the middle of streams. This should be the high-end 93.

[ilikexd]

Re: Jamais Vu [93 or 94]

So you think JV = high 93; AQD = mid 93; EP = low 93?

I see much more difference between the three, enough to constitute a difficulty jump between them.

lmao I just read the first line of my OP.

[qqwref]

Re: Jamais Vu [93 or 94]

Just wanna point out that 250 BPM jumpstream with a jump every quarter note is 20.83 NPS.

[TC_Halogen]

Re: Jamais Vu [93 or 94]

So you think JV = high 93; AQD = mid 93; EP = low 93?

I see much more difference between the three, enough to constitute a difficulty jump between them.

lmao I just read the first line of my OP.

This is the inevitable problem of 99 being an upperbound, haha.

[ilikexd]

Re: Jamais Vu [93 or 94]

Yea 1-99 is really subjectivemanias and stuff gets especially fuzzy at the higher ends as very specific skills get emphasized to their extremes.

[EzExZeRo7497]

Re: Jamais Vu [93 or 94]

And rather than looking at it as EP: 93 -> 92, you should look at it as AQD: 92 -> 93. EP's 250 BPM jumpstream at the end clocks in at 16.66 NPS, but with jumps every quarter note (and an instance of two 8th note jumps), you're looking at above 20 NPS collectively. With the nasty split-handed burst placement in the 32nds and the overall density of the file making the file considerably harder to read than most constant high-level files (Jamais Vu's 230 BPM jumpstream could be constituted as easier to read), EP probably shouldn't be a 92. However, the structure is simple -- the hardest part of the song requires you to haul ass, but that's all.

A Quick Death also shares the same 250 BPM structure as EP, but the simplicity of patterns found in EP is nowhere to be found in AQD -- the patterns are outright disgusting. It's not quite as stamina draining, but it is incredibly difficult to get a good score on due to nasty burst patterning and strange transitions into and out of 32nd walls. You would think this file is easy to score on with jumptrilling being the basis of getting around the large 32nd walls, but there are some 32nd bursts that start on either up and down arrows and end on split handed jumps, forcing you to do split-handed jumptrills to even stand a chance.

The reason why I feel that Extratone Pirates should be a 92 (the highest 92 at that though, keep that in mind) is because there's really only one FSO-worthy area in the entire file and that area doesn't really have the firepower to be a 93. Sure, Extratone Pirates is around 20.8 NPS, but keep in mind that Extratone Pirates' patterns have anchors that only last up to three notes at the most. If the patterning was a lot harder (more anchors/one hand trills) I definitely would agree that it's a 93. Jamais Vu might be 20 BPM slower, but the patterning is so brutal (density, anchors) and the runs are so long it's pretty clear that Jamais Vu is harder than Extratone Pirates by a notch.

A Quick Death as a 93 though? Ehh... the density itself isn't that bad, but it demands a lot more control than something like say, Extratone Pirates or arguably System Doctor. Although there are bursts that require split jumptrilling, they aren't really long to begin with (8 notes long?) and they're pretty rare to begin with. I could only find one when I was watching a replay of it lol. The burst transitioning in AQD isn't as bad as System Doctor's in my opinion, but I can definitely say that it'll be hard to get a good score on it because of how many bursts they are and how they require some luck to nail. I think it should be a 92, but I would definitely want to see other opinions on it though.

@Rob: The file itself isn't really that demanding in stamina and such. It's mainly about nailing all of the parts into one run, since it's littered with awkward/horrid patterns that are there to break combo. It's pretty easy to score on compared to other files at its level, but FC'ing/AAA'ing is much harder. None of the parts (maybe except for the jumpjack) really stand out as FSO material by themselves. Though, the framers would definitely make a huge problem for scoring though, but I don't know. Personally I don't see too much of a change in my score (or anyone's for that matter) because of gross framers.

[popsicle_3000]

Re: Jamais Vu [93 or 94]

not sure if this means anything, but my PA is twice as worse on JV than EP. I've found JV much harder

[EzExZeRo7497]

Re: Jamais Vu [93 or 94]

JV has a lot of jumptrillable parts and such, and the only reason it's a 93 is because it is relentless - and since most people dont have stamina for 230bpm for 3 minutes i can see why people get like.. 3 times as many goods in JV

also people are generally more prone to goods during extended trills - JV has exactly that - trills (230bpm 16ths) for an extended amount of time near the end of the song that results in the a lot of goods for many i believe

..

[ilikexd]

Re: Jamais Vu [93 or 94]

aqd sounds ok as low 93 or staying 92 but yea lets get ep moved

[One Winged Angel]

Re: Jamais Vu [93 or 94]

I still feel EP 93 -> 92 is a more logical transition than AQD 92 -> 93. There should most definitely be at least a point in difficulty separating EP and JV. I also have intentions of moving WWE and WW pt. 2 to 93, and having both AQD and WWE share the same rating just wouldn't be accurate imo.

imo, 92-94 (excluding CP/TWWW) should be ordered as follows:

System Doctor, Extratone, A Quick Death, Jamais Vu, Winter Wind Etude, White Walls Pt. 2 (possibly 94-worthy), Husigi, Unconnected.

If you guys like using low/mid/high prefix ratings for each subgroup, AQD could still be viewed as more difficult than EP with this setup. I just think it's a lot more fitting as a 92 and distinct from the other 93s. I like this setup a lot more than bumping AQD up to 93, because then if WW pt. 2 gets bumped, System Doctor is the sole 92. This proposed setup orders difficulty accurately and still fills out each subgroup pretty evenly.

[TC_Halogen]

Re: Jamais Vu [93 or 94]

Looks good to me, glad that a resolution was attainable here.

I'd like to say that the scoreboard indicates WW2 should be moved up, but it's pretty hard to judge considering that it's a token and can only yield good scores by really high-end players, haha.

[One Winged Angel]

Re: Jamais Vu [93 or 94]

Changed to what I proposed. I think most of D7 will agree the difficulty scales well with this progression. Any problems, post here.