OMGWTFT0K3N [65 or 29]

[Zapmeister]

Re: OMGWTFT0K3N [65 or 29]

One other thing hasn't been mentioned, and that's the fact that splitting any one of those jumps, hands, or quads that contain both up and down arrows completely destroys your PA on this particular file. I remember hitting the [12] section of a quad one frame earlier than the [34] portion. The receptors would move downwards, forcing the [34] to now be hit as late goods, whereas normally the jumps on both hands should have been PA'd in the quad. You may not have a huge problem with this, but I know a ton of others do. All other charts in the game are very lenient with splitting given FFR's three frame window. This one plays very differently.

I sent off a bunch of replays to the replay to frame comparison thread for analysis. If One Winged Angel is right, then what's supposed to happen is that the amount of times I hit the down arrow 1 frame before I hit the up (or in fact any other) arrow should be less, and the amount of times I hit the down arrow 2 frames before I hit any other arrow should be more. That's because he's saying I lose a frame after I hit the down arrow and the chart moves up a bit.

Results: This does not happen.

In my 5 replays I counted the frame differences between down/up and also down/left, along with another random replay I got earlier on another song. This is what I got

Down arrow vs. up arrow: In 5 plays of omgwtft0k3n there were
0 times where I hit down 2 frames before up
21 times where I hit down 1 frame before up
229 times where I hit them on the same frame
4 times where I hit up 1 frame before down
0 times where I hit up 2 frames before down
1 time where I completely missed the down arrow

on a play of Shadows the same figures were 1-1-22-3-0.

Left arrow vs. down arrow: In 5 plays of omgwtft0k3n there were
0 times where I hit left 2 frames before down
6 times where I hit left 1 frame before down
192 times where I hit them on the same frame
1 time where I hit down 1 frame before left
0 times where I hit down 2 frames before left
1 time where I completely missed the down arrow

on a play of Shadows the same figures were 0-5-69-0-0.

Ok, so I'm not losing any perfect frames.

Seeing as a lot of you are suggesting that is what is happening, it might just be the engine or something. What looks like is happening from my perspective is that the arrows you're supposed to hit are moving in sync with the stationary arrows at the top when you press a key.

The slight imbalance of hitting left before down, and down before up, more times than the other way round *might* be due to my setup. I change my setup every so often just to avoid overuse of certain keys on my keyboard, and I'm currently using spread on zxcv and every time I press z,x,c,v on my keyboard together in a word document it comes up "zxcv" and not any other order, which might be causing the imbalance. I really don't think it's the shifting effects on omgwtft0k3n, because that would sort of mean I'm losing a "little bit" of a frame somewhere, and frames are supposed to be quantised. (That was probably badly worded. I'm tired.)

So as far as I can see there is no difference in my jump splitting patterns between when I play omgwtft0k3n and when I play anything else.

Obviously if I could tell that I was losing perfect frames owing to the chart moving around, this would be a lot higher than 29 and a lot more annoying to play. But I'm confident in saying this does not happen to me. I'm fine with rating it "??", since one person's playing experience seems to be completely different from another's, but to me this does not play like anything higher than a 30. Even if I were to pick up whatever that token is that you get from an AAA on a 50-52 range on this, I'd feel it's completely unjustified.

oh and one other thing I completely forgot to mention earlier: use offset +2. It's quite noticeably off-sync and as you're going to have to rely heavily on the beat rather than the position of the arrows to know when to hit, that makes a huge difference.

[qqwref]

Re: OMGWTFT0K3N [65 or 29]

I was thinking the same thing (nice job on making statistics for it). The gimmick only affects the visual, on-screen positioning of everything on the game field, and it affects everything at once (both receptors and arrows). The actual frames things are hit on shouldn't be affected at all, although the movement might negatively affect the player if they are used to hitting things based on when the arrow passes a specific location.

[One Winged Angel]

Re: OMGWTFT0K3N [65 or 29]

I'm gonna need to test this file again later, because I swear to you I would hit a quad that definitely felt like all perfects but nabbed one or two goods because of receptors moving and splitting. I know other people had the same issue so I hope I'm not insane lol. That's really the only reason it took me such a long time to AAA the chart...and if this doesn't occur then.........lmao I'm just baffled.

I can't really argue with what you presented in that post though. Perhaps there's a fraction of a second or so that allows a one frame difference to occur (I have no idea how long it takes the receptors to move after pressing an arrow, maybe you can sneak a split in before they move).

Anyways +1 for '??', gonna get the game managers' opinions on the '??' rating.

[qqwref]

Re: OMGWTFT0K3N [65 or 29]

The receptors should move relative to the notes, though. So the placement of the arrows relative to the receptors at any given time doesn't change. It seems more likely that the receptor movements were tricking you (and possibly others) into hitting a chord at the wrong time, like say centered around the late perfect frame, so that a split that would normally keep your AAA would instead give you a good or two.

[popsicle_3000]

Re: OMGWTFT0K3N [65 or 29]

i'd say keep it a 65, or rate it ??

what people said about some D4+ people having huge trouble on it... shouldn't be an oni get, which seems unanimous.

[Zapmeister]

Re: OMGWTFT0K3N [65 or 29]

One other thing: If the receptors did in fact move, it would make logical sense for the amount of movement to depend on your speed mod, since the amount they move would be equal to the distance travelled by one arrow in one frame. This does not happen.

edit: replay of AAA on velocity moved to 1st post

[Velocity]

Re: OMGWTFT0K3N [65 or 29]

I should say I'm sorry for making this chart/level.

(Sidenote: The original file I made didn't include a background and was worse then this. As it was done in about 30 minutes at like 5am for the April first events. The first plan I had rotated the entire game to match the hits, but that became impossible to play so I settled on what is there currently. It's not impossible to play, but it's hard/different enough to make it "fun")

[Zapmeister]

Re: OMGWTFT0K3N [65 or 29]

Bump.

This shouldn't unlock Scarhand [Standard] and I don't mind if you take it away from me.

In particular, the arrow gimmick doesn't work on r^3.

Discuss.

edit: even with the gimmick working I still maintain that it's a low 30s, probably not 29 since I think all the songs I tried to compare it to in the first post are slightly under-rated compared to other 30s. just saying

[qqwref]

Re: OMGWTFT0K3N [65 or 29]

I still think it's a pretty tough file to nail (but, okay, maybe not hard enough to be "right under oni" since that has its own token now). But if the gimmick is broken on R^3, it shouldn't be allowed at all on that engine until that's fixed. I'd suggest something like a "sorry, this song is unavailable on this engine" message.

[TheSaxRunner05]

Re: OMGWTFT0K3N [65 or 29]

Yea this file should not be a scarhand [standard] unlock, I'd at least put it down to a 57

[SK8R43]

Re: OMGWTFT0K3N [65 or 29]

Yea this file should not be a scarhand [standard] unlock, I'd at least put it down to a 57

Explain? I have over 40 FMO AAAs and am high D5 and i wont be touching this aaa anytime soon.... Its not easy. I personally think 65 is fine for it but def should not be an oni get lol

[HalfStep]

Re: OMGWTFT0K3N [65 or 29]

I dont understand how that file is 65 or anywhere near it... I dont have the token, am I missing something? Watched replays and it looks really easy...

[Velocity]

Re: OMGWTFT0K3N [65 or 29]

I dont understand how that file is 65 or anywhere near it... I dont have the token, am I missing something? Watched replays and it looks really easy...

Replays don't have the gimmick.