2012, a year of dramatic change.

[Lucifericrucifix]

As some (or many, this is critical thinking anyways..) of you know, 2012 is predicted by many to be a year that will certainly go noticed more than any other for various reasons, primarily speculation but many with slightly conclusive information to back their assumptions and predictions as well.
Quite a few people believe this will be the year of change, so to speak, a year which wields what is commonly referred to as "The Apocalypse" based off of the Mayan Calendar. The 21st of December, and the 26th are the two dates I've heard most about where "something" is to occur, though, once again, it's theory not inevitable fact.

Common beliefs seem to be..
Immense natural disasters in correlation with Polarity Shifts and the 13th cycle of the zodiac.
Some object from space coming and colliding with Earth.
A change more on a scientific level dealing with the atmosphere of the earth (ozone, magnetics, polarity, etc.)
And a bit more out there, Aliens apparently coming back to earth with hostile intentions rather than the helpful one's enthusiasts believed they had (well, those who believed they built ancient structures, pyramids, things of that nature, very interesting stuff to read up on.)
The second coming of Christ.

In short (For those that are too lazy to read, though I hope you would considering this is CT):
Commonly predicted by many, 2012 will be the year of change, be it physical, or mental, something is to come about Earth and we will be graced by something important.

I really just want to start a discussion on this so everyone can share their thoughts as the best questions will probably come from others, but I suppose we all have a few to raise, no?

A few that I raise are,
Does anyone believe such is inevitably going to happen and if so, why?
Is history truly accurate in this depiction with the Mayan calendar and the correlation it has between science and theory?
Assuming these are "natural" disasters, if we are able to predict what and where, do you feel we have enough time to prepare for something so sporadic?
What political changes do you feel might take place from here up until 2012?
What are your religious thoughts on the matter?

There is a lot that can be said about the topic and I'm surprised to not see one, but feel free to discuss, I'm very curious on everyones thoughts.

And...For those that are really, really, lazy..Here. Unsurprisingly, there is a Wiki-entry on it, somewhat.
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012

[travman301]

It's 2007...

And anyways, I don't think this really qualifies for a CT thread. I'm sick of seeing all of these "ZOMG BEILVE tHE PARIN0RM4L, DISCUSS" threads.

If there were more reason than simple superstition, I would try to make a thought provoking post. But it seems as useful as debating wheter or not black cats bring bad luck.

I think a thread like this belongs in Chit Chat.

[devonin]

Also...I wasn't aware that the Mayans constitute "Commonly" and "Quite a few people" and "Many" or that the Mayans could possibly have predicted the second coming of Christ.

Apocalypse bandwagnoneers have been proven wrong each and every time they pick a date for doom to happen.

I just can't get over how an ancient civilization, that when they wrote up their big calendar decided to stop after several -thousand- years, somehow is assumed to have predicted the end of the world at that date.

[Lucifericrucifix]

I wasn't entirely sure where to put it quite honestly. I went with CT because the responses are generally better.

Also, I don't mean the Mayans themselves, well, specifically, I meant more or less speculation of modern times...The current people, what they speculate. Not the thoughts of just the Mayans, sorry the for lack of specifics. I don't think the initial theory is synonymous with what is commonly believed in modern times.

And...For the record I wasn't really stating a personal position and trying to get people to believe that this is inevitably the end or something, I'd prefer it wasn't over some imminent demise.

[Relambrien]

Well, to the OP, I can understand the difficulty in choosing where to post this. You want a mature discussion on something that is extremely questionable in and of itself. While the former condition suits this forum, the latter doesn't really fit. Most topics here refer to the effectiveness of something, controversy surrounding a real item or event, questions on culture, or--a little too often--religion. A topic like this doesn't really fit those.

Still, I can understand that you would want this in CT for a serious discussion, so I'm going to go ahead and offer my vote (if it counts for anything) that this stay here.

First and foremost, why is it that this date has been so popularized as the day of the Apocalypse? Some time ago I was greatly interested in the subject, and did some research. However, I cannot recall and therefore cannot produce the sources I used, so therefore, I cannot vouch for the validity of any of the claims I researched.

The biggest "evidence" is the long-count calendar. As the Wikipedia entry states, it completes its thirteenth b'ak'tun cycle then, and appeared to represent to the Maya a time of transition into the next world.

The reason people are so convinced about this is that the Maya were a very mysterious people. They were among the first in the world to develop the concept of zero (zero also appeared separately in other parts of the world), and their downfall is shrouded in mystery. Because of this, they appear to many as the mythical "advanced ancients" that so many stories seem to love. The people think, "Well considering these guys were so awesome, their Apocalyptic prediction is probably the most credible."

As jewpin put it in another thread however, "If they were so great, why did they disappear?"

Now, another piece of "evidence." I seem to recall Nostradamus predicting a violent asteroid impact around 2012, but since I know practically nothing about him, I don't know just how people know he meant 2012. This is something I want to look more into.

There's also another hypothesis that's sometimes used as "evidence" for this. In another forum some time ago, there was discussion about how when the Apocalypse draws near, Biblical elements are supposed to strengthen, foretelling the event. Someone found that an idea had been proposed that this was occurring now. In 2004, there was the deadly tsunami (the element of water). In 2005, a massive hurricane season (wind). I forget how 2006 was explained, and since 2007 is still going on, there was nothing written about it. Apparently, the final element was supposed to be darkness or something, occurring in 2012 with the coming of the Antichrist.

Now, the phrase "polar shift" has been used a lot. This isn't actually as big a deal as a lot of people claim; at least, it hasn't wrecked the Earth the many times it's happened before. This was something I learned in my science class, so once again I don't have a source to corroborate it. It seems that the Earth's magnetic field changes in such a way every few thousand years that the poles reverse. This means that if the poles reversed now, your compass would begin to point south.

Considering that modern humans have existed for over 40,000 years, I doubt polar reversal had too much of an impact on life.

So all in all, I don't subscribe to the "Apocalypse on 12/21/12" idea. People are always expecting the end of the world during their lifetimes. Once 12/21/12 comes, actually, we'll have had 3 doomsday predictions in 12 years. Y2K, 6/6/06, and 12/21/12. Each "doomsday" was proposed under a different set of ideas, and the two most recent ones have turned out to be complete hoaxes.

Y2K forced everyone to set their computers' clocks ahead 99 years, big deal.

6/6/06 did absolutely nothing except make a big splash on the news.

I expect that as 12/21/12 draws near, it will begin to flood the news. 6/6/06 started making waves (or at least I first noticed it doing so) about two weeks before the event. So around December 7th, 2012, start looking on the news for reports about the Mayan Day of Reckoning, and enjoy them. There's bound to be at least one person acting like an idiot on national TV when an event like this occurs. Doesn't matter what the event is, there's always one person that makes the stale reports worthwhile.

[arsonistsgetallthegirls]

I don't know.
it seems this thread was well thought out and i think it belongs in CT.

Back on topic, I'm going to have to side with Relambrien on this one...
it seems JUST like 6/6/06... everyone acts ridiculous and prepares for the apocalypse, but it never comes. It is strange however that so many people have predicted that certain year as the year of change...

my guess is that presidential elections will be the only huge change that year...

[_Adrian_]

superstitions kill the cat?

[silvercomet1525]

http://www.exitmundi.nl/Maya.htm (Don't read the rest of the site if you get scared/creeped out easily)

So it might be a superstition. Like Y2K or 06-06-06 or anything else like that. It's not like it's going to happen.

But then again, they have predicted earlier events before. They supposedly predicted the attack on their civilization and both world wars.

Only time can tell I guess.

[og4lif]

Originally Posted by silvercomet1525

http://www.exitmundi.nl/Maya.htm (Don't read the rest of the site if you get scared/creeped out easily)

But then again, they have predicted earlier events before. They supposedly predicted the attack on their civilization and both world wars.

Only time can tell I guess.

I'm not an expert on the Maya civilization so I was thinking about this for a couple of minutes. If they were capable of predicting the attack on their civilization, why is that the Maya were not capable of avoiding such an obstacle?

[devonin]

Originally Posted by silvercomet1525

http://www.exitmundi.nl/Maya.htm (Don't read the rest of the site if you get scared/creeped out easily)

The only thing that scares me about that website is the sheer volume of spelling and grammatical errors present in something pretending to be remotely accurate and useful.

No citations, no references to research, just some mumbo-jumbo with a side order of hogwash. Every instance of the phrase "The Maya's were" or "The Maya's are" (People from the Maya region were called Mayans, and the apostrophe is unnecessary even if that were how you actually parsed the term) highlighted the random non-academic nature of the link.

Further, I don't see that page even trying to claim that the Mayan people predicted future events with any discernable accuracy. "Legend has it" does not constitute CT-worthy argument.

[silvercomet1525]

Hm... I didn't actually read it again, having read it already a few months ago. I guess I remembered as really trustworthy or just didn't pay attention to those kinds of details. Or I was just too gullible back then. One of those. (I really thought it cited a source at the bottom like the other parts of that site, but my mind must have been playing tricks on me.)

But personally, whether it was proven or just a legend, I'm really leaning more towards "superstition" on this. I'm pretty sure that there are worse things that can happen to us than something like this. Like the site says, the only reasons that this is attracting so much attention is because it's relatively near and has a defined date. (I'm pretty sure this part is true anyways.)

[devonin]

The mere fact that they are trying to take the Mayan Long Count Calendar and somehow create a direct correspondence with the Julian or Gregorian calendars, which came about much later, are based on seperate concepts, have been changed and adjusted dozens of times and are quite inaccurate as systems of measurement over extremely long periods seems pretty rediculous to me.

[Cavernio]

This thread begs the question why some people feel a need to believe in superstition. Is it because they're unhappy with what science currently knows? Is it because science makes things unmysterious? How is it that some people can end up strongly believing in ancient texts and mumbo jumbo?

[Izzy-chandess]

Ummmm... right.... I think the whole 2021 thing is a bunch of bulls***. It's stupid and superstitious.

[Reach]

Well, calanders don't end, of course. 2012 rumors are just misinterpretation of the mayan long count. A new cycle begins in 2012...the world certainly isn't going to end >_>

[GuidoHunter]

A nice try, but not CT.

Moved.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

[madmatt621]

In 2012, asteroid 2004MN4 comes into view again to recalculate odds of impact.

...strike the Earth in 2029.

Additional observations of the trajectory of Apophis revealed the "keyhole" would likely be missed and on August 5, 2006, Apophis was lowered to a Level 0 on the Torino Scale. As of October 19, 2006, the impact probability for April 13, 2036, is estimated at 1 in 45,000. An additional impact date in 2037 has been identified; however, the impact probability for that encounter is 1 in 12.3 million.


Despite the fact that there is no longer any significant probability of an Earth impact, the Planetary Society is offering a $50,000 prize for the best plan to put a tracking device on or near the asteroid.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004MN4

Hells yea!

[jewpinthethird]

1) The Mayan concept of time is differs from the Western concept. While we see time as linear, Mayans believed in the "eternal now" that went through cycles. This was based on their highly developed astrological observations, and natural Earth cycles.

2) The Mayan predictions are vague at best, and only make sense in retrospect....like a every other predicted "prophecy" that has ever existed. They are predictions that can be interpreted many different ways. People just read too much into them.

3) Y2K, lulz

4)

5) Why the hell are people taking advice from a civilization that, due to civil war, poor farming practices, urbanization, the leeching of natural resources, and a top heavy aristocracy, disappeared from the face of the Earth, save for small patches of primitive outsider settlements?

[Goldenwind]

I did research on the Mayans. One _______ (Forgot her title), who specialized in Mayan history, said that there is no evidence of an appocalypse or any kind of such predictions from the Mayans.

2012 December somethingorother at 11 O'Clock will mark the flipover period of their lunar calendar, which will be the first time that the sun passes between the Milky Way and Earth in some number of years.

Are there "energies" that this will block? Maybe. No one knows, no one can prove it (If there are, we've never had them blocked before in our lifetime, or even the Mayans, so no one can vouch for that). The media blows this up, saying how the energies being disrupted will end life as we know it (Not necessarily killing Earth, but changing life forever).

Conclusion: It's possible (As almost anything is), but there is no evidence to support that this is any more than a little kid's nightmare. This is not a fact or prediction made from the remarkably accurate Mayans.

[silvercomet1525]

The thing is... the Sun has been between the Milky Way and us before, but nothing big has happened. No "end of the world".

All I know is that December 2012 will be quite an interesting time whether this is true or not. Lots of people will be doing crazy things like running around proclaiming the end of the world.

The more I think about it, the more it seems that we aren't superstitious. It's more like we're paranoid.