Completely Revised Official Tier Point System

[rushyrulz]

lol like the 5 hardest 9s made the list, but it's ok. No glaring disagreements although I'm feeling a little iffy on Legendary Etude (dem rolls outta nowhere).

[-zeroSKILL-]

MAX Forever isn't on the list.... I am disappoint.

Also... The VC list... jesus fucking christ.

There is barely any difficulty ramp at all. Goes straight from mid-high 9's to high 10's.

wtf is this shit. 4/40 of the VC songs fit into the "mildly difficult" range. Szamar Madar, Sympathizer, Witches Hat, and UNKnown Girl. The rest are basically borderline FMO imo. wtf kind of difficulty scale are we going for here?

I got no complaints with the lesser difficulties except for maybe including both Rose and Blaze in the 9's. I say pick one or the other. I'm not bitching cause of TP's I'll get, cause hell, I have both Blaze and Rose AAA'd. I just really don't see any kind of steady progression after you hit the 9's.

idk... Please tell me what your general thoughts on this project are, and then I'll share greater detail on how I feel about the song list, with detail, not general bitching/moaning. It just looks incredibly off balance right now to me.

[hi19hi19]

LMFAO M.A.M.A. STILL ON LIST





victorymanias

[Emithith]

not gonna be one hundred percent sure that I am gonna like or dislike this until I find out how this plays out for sure in-game

[lumphoboextreme]

lol I still haven't really tried to get tier points at all. I'm assuming 263 is really bad. Haven't really played/got token songs either.

[TC_Halogen]

Did you guys take the majority rule of the tier lists? If so, there might be a bias towards and against certain charts (I too noticed the absence of Max Forever, which is absurd because that is clearly the highest VD in game). The fact that the lists were submitted by the community means that there was more than likely an omission of certain songs due to the fact that they are overall disliked, not because they wouldn't make great songs for the list.

Another thing that I'm seeing is there's really not a lot of newer songs in the tier list either, just a lot of older files. There are some pretty decent newer files that have tricky concepts -- you could replace older files with more "fresh" content.

[remedy1502]

Originally Posted by hi19hi19

LMFAO M.A.M.A. STILL ON LIST





victorymanias

Lmfao yea I lol'd
I can try and formulate some sort of opinion about the list right now but I kinda just woke up and I'm freezing cold so idk how well I'll be thinking atm. Time to get under some blankets and write what I think:

Difficult and Very Difficult lists:
They look pretty good to me, only song that stood out to me as to be replaced by something different was Victims and Martyrs. Not sure why, it's a pretty difficult file for an 8 iirc. I hope these lists play out well for lower tiered players. I'm disappointed in the lack of Max Forever.

Challenging List:
List looks good, varying from straight stream to rolls to swing to bursts. I like it. I was thinking how only thing missing is jacks, but I couldn't think of any jacky 9s. Then I played Song for the second moon cause I didn't remember it and there they were. It's a fun bunch of songs too which is nice.

Very Challenging List:
I have to agree with zeroskill, there's no really "low" 10s on this list. Like him though, I don't fully know the intent of the list. Maybe it's to test you on different types of files like how I noticed in the 9s. I do see streamy files, jacky files, little bit of bursty stuff, couple rolly things, and some just tricky files. I am disappointed Didj PVC isn't on the list, as it's a very tricky, technical file. Same with Fast Asleep, I think it deserves to be on the list as well (not sure if I added it on my list, I don't remember). Both of these are more difficult than Twelve but the same sort of bursty file. I also think Bus Rides With People and Beadumaegen deserve a place.

I'll probably read this in the afternoon and be like lmfao what was I thinking but nonetheless, that's how I feel at this present moment. I feel I would have more to say about the FMO/FGO lists though, mostly because that's all I'll essentially be dealing with having all 1-10s AAA'd, as well as having been the only files I have really played in the past several months and know how they are.

[iironiic]

I'm honestly surprised not to see files like Keep In Mind, Bus Rides With People, Feld, and Fast Asleep not be in the list. They seemed like good candidates to be in the Tier point list since they have that FMOish feel versus other songs like Ascii Art Core. Newer songs would be a nice addition as well.

But again, not many people did submit a list, including myself. I was on break at the time so I never got around to doing that :[ Sorry.

I think instead of blindly selecting a bunch of files, I think we should rank them in our own list, so that when it comes to tallying, each file will have a different weight. For example, if I said, "Fast Asleep must definitely be in this list," I would put (1) next to it if I wanted to give it the highest priority (of 40 songs). When it comes to adding, Fast Asleep would get 40 tallies from my list alone. That way, the tallies aren't merely based on how many people have that file on their list.

[i love you]

Originally Posted by TC_Halogen

Did you guys take the majority rule of the tier lists? If so, there might be a bias towards and against certain charts (I too noticed the absence of Max Forever, which is absurd because that is clearly the highest VD in game). The fact that the lists were submitted by the community means that there was more than likely an omission of certain songs due to the fact that they are overall disliked, not because they wouldn't make great songs for the list.

Well, we kind of did half and half. The reason why we did not add max forever was because there were a lot of people from the older TP thread stating that they not want that song in the list (and I mean a lot of people). We ended up replacing that with Victims and Martyrs which seemed like a bad idea so we will replace that back to Max Forever since it seems like people wants that file in Tier Points now.

Another thing that I'm seeing is there's really not a lot of newer songs in the tier list either, just a lot of older files. There are some pretty decent newer files that have tricky concepts -- you could replace older files with more "fresh" content.

For some reason, most of the outlines I have received picked most of the older songs then newer ones for some reason so I assumed that majority would want more decently older files then decently newer ones. Also, one thing that I would like to point out is that we also wanted the D and VD songs to have files that were more straightforward with some variety. We did not want a lot of files with too much color madness like for example "Improvisation et Chien". As for C's and VC's though (especially VC), I will agree that some of the more older files needs to be replaced with newer ones. I do however believe that the majority of the songs we have selected would be good for Tier Points but I will leave that to the community to answer that! (:

Originally Posted by hi19hi19

LMFAO M.A.M.A. STILL ON LIST

I did not want that on the list at first but then Michael said that it would definitely be a good addition to Tier Points because the file was unique and it focused on a totally different skill from the rest of the songs which is something we want.

Originally Posted by remedy1502

Difficult and Very Difficult lists:
They look pretty good to me, only song that stood out to me as to be replaced by something different was Victims and Martyrs. Not sure why, it's a pretty difficult file for an 8 iirc. I hope these lists play out well for lower tiered players. I'm disappointed in the lack of Max Forever.

Looks like it's official, we are going to replace Victims and Martyrs with Max Forever.

Challenging List:
List looks good, varying from straight stream to rolls to swing to bursts. I like it. I was thinking how only thing missing is jacks, but I couldn't think of any jacky 9s. Then I played Song for the second moon cause I didn't remember it and there they were. It's a fun bunch of songs too which is nice.

I honestly thought the Challenging list was really good myself. There will probably be no change to that list.

Very Challenging List:
I have to agree with zeroskill, there's no really "low" 10s on this list. Like him though, I don't fully know the intent of the list. Maybe it's to test you on different types of files like how I noticed in the 9s. I do see streamy files, jacky files, little bit of bursty stuff, couple rolly things, and some just tricky files. I am disappointed Didj PVC isn't on the list, as it's a very tricky, technical file. Same with Fast Asleep, I think it deserves to be on the list as well (not sure if I added it on my list, I don't remember). Both of these are more difficult than Twelve but the same sort of bursty file. I also think Bus Rides With People and Beadumaegen deserve a place.

Alright, looks like that the VC list will need some adjustments. We will definitely fix that.

Originally Posted by iironiic

I'm honestly surprised not to see files like Keep In Mind, Bus Rides With People, Feld, and Fast Asleep not be in the list. They seemed like good candidates to be in the Tier point list since they have that FMOish feel versus other songs like Ascii Art Core. Newer songs would be a nice addition as well.

Alright, looks like we will keep those choices in mind however we do not want a lot of harder VC files on the list because then it will interfere with zeroskill's and remedy's complaint. The community will probably have to decide which songs needs to be removed and songs that should be replaced by those removed files.

But again, not many people did submit a list, including myself. I was on break at the time so I never got around to doing that :[ Sorry.

I tried the best I could to get people to submit outlines so that the list would be more accurate but I can not blame people who have busy schedules. Oh well, I was at least happy enough to get some outlines to start off with.

I think instead of blindly selecting a bunch of files, I think we should rank them in our own list, so that when it comes to tallying, each file will have a different weight. For example, if I said, "Fast Asleep must definitely be in this list," I would put (1) next to it if I wanted to give it the highest priority (of 40 songs). When it comes to adding, Fast Asleep would get 40 tallies from my list alone. That way, the tallies aren't merely based on how many people have that file on their list.

I REALLY like this idea however I doubt people in this community will have the "time" to do that because it seems like to me that most of them have busy schedules. Also, I feel that it will also go back to what AJ said about people picking songs that they liked rather than people picking ones that would be good for Tier Points. I really just want to be more careful this time with the selection of songs.

@Community: PLEASE keep it up with the suggestions and complaints! I really would like to see what more people think about this so that we can act accordingly.

[TC_Halogen]

The C list seems a bit on the tougher side, but definitely manageable. The VC list is harsh.

The problem with collaborating with the community is that there will be obvious favoritism towards certain songs. Make minor changes and inform the community as you go, and things should go smoothly. With the team that's handling the FMOs, I have no doubt that you guys will have a solid song choice overall.

[-zeroSKILL-]

Gotta agree with AJ. I tried my damnedest to not show favoritism in my list though. I'm actually really disappointed MAX Forever isn't on this list and I don't have it AAA'd, nor do I think I will be AAA'ing it any time soon. The 9's do seem to be a considerable jump in difficulty from whatever 8 you would personally rate the hardest, but there is no question that the jump in difficulty from 9's to 10's is just huge. You almost may as well make 2 separate TP bars, the amateur TP bar holding the 7-9 songs and the veteran TP bar holding 10-13 songs.

List needs tweaking. If you need detailed input from people I'd be happy to give it if I felt it would help contribute towards a more balanced list.

[i love you]

Originally Posted by TC_Halogen

The C list seems a bit on the tougher side, but definitely manageable. The VC list is harsh.

The problem with collaborating with the community is that there will be obvious favoritism towards certain songs. Make minor changes and inform the community as you go, and things should go smoothly. With the team that's handling the FMOs, I have no doubt that you guys will have a solid song choice overall.

We will definitely keep that in mind! Also, I already knew that favoritism was going to happen which is why we kind of did half and half in the first place.

@Community: I have decided to hold the FMO and FGO list until the D-VC list are finalized. I really want people to focus on 7-10 first because those are just as important.

EDIT: @-zeroSKILL-: That would be a really helpful thing to do. Might even speed up things a bit as well.

[-zeroSKILL-]

Okay, I'll start working on that after I get back from the DMV today. Gonna be leaving soon to renew my license, so I have no idea when I'll be back to work on it. May be hours, or years... who knows with the DMV ~_~

[WTF WRECKED]

Alright, Victims and Martyrs has been replaced with Max Forever. I think the 8's should be good now!

EDIT: @zeroSKILL: Take your time bro

[justin_ator]

Nuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

Max Forever /slits wrists

[YoshL]

Originally Posted by justin_ator

Nuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

Max Forever /slits wrists

I think you have to look past the file itself, and look at what it tests the player with. Again, objectiveness over subjectiveness, just like the M.A.M.A case. I'm all for Max Forever in the list.

consistency
retarded long one hand consistency trills
consistency
consistent stream sections
consistency
a bit of jumpstream and slightly weird rhythms
consistency

etc. etc. etc.

[SkRAWRk]

I'm happy with the list as it is now. The point of the Tier Point list is supposed to be to test you on your abilities, having a lot of harder VC files doesn't seem that bad to me.

[iironiic]

Originally Posted by i love you

Alright, looks like we will keep those choices in mind however we do not want a lot of harder VC files on the list because then it will interfere with zeroskill's and remedy's complaint. The community will probably have to decide which songs needs to be removed and songs that should be replaced by those removed files.

I tried the best I could to get people to submit outlines so that the list would be more accurate but I can not blame people who have busy schedules. Oh well, I was at least happy enough to get some outlines to start off with.

I REALLY like this idea however I doubt people in this community will have the "time" to do that because it seems like to me that most of them have busy schedules. Also, I feel that it will also go back to what AJ said about people picking songs that they liked rather than people picking ones that would be good for Tier Points. I really just want to be more careful this time with the selection of songs.

@Community: PLEASE keep it up with the suggestions and complaints! I really would like to see what more people think about this so that we can act accordingly.

That's true. After all, the majority of the tier points are from FMO+ songs so I completely understand about having files people generally enjoy in the TP list rather than having harder songs. The list looks great at the moment!

Also, some newer/harder fun files to consider for the difficulties:

8's: A Beautiful Storm

10's: Sirius, Phantom Ensemble, Feld, Finders Keepers, Fast Asleep, and Bus Rides.

[TC_Halogen]

One way that I feel could be beneficial to helping the structure of the tier list is to examine what the main subjective features of a file (i.e. pattern choice) are. Alternatively, examine other main factors of a song, like BPM, NPS, etc.

[remedy1502]

Alright I'm home and have a ****ton of time to kill and I'm feeling productive. I'll play through a bunch of 10s and sort them by the type of file and rate them like Wilson suggested (within their own category).
I'll try to come up with (hopefully) a good list with a larger range of difficulty. Probably by tomorrow, maybe even tonight if I'm feeling ambitious.