Help with Casual-Conversational Skills

[Arch0wl]

conversations are one skill I've learned to get pretty good at so I'll drop a few things

1. question-commentary. there needs to be some kind of alternation. this is perhaps the most fundamental structure of conversation, and the most socially awkward people (like, beyond just "a little awkward") don't ask questions.

2. keep mental time of how long you are talking about shit. time is relative, 10 seconds past 60 seconds of you talking feels like forever, but the first 10 seconds of what you have to say doesn't feel long at all.

3. if there is an awkward silence it's because one of you doesn't know a good transition. think of one. ask something. comment on something. there is never a reason for an awkward silence in conversation.

4. make eye contact.

5. do not make extended direct eye contact unless you want to communicate that you want to fuck them. look at the spot directly above someone's eyebrow; this is the more effective place to look.

6. it's okay to break eye contact. people do this all the time. you just can't be looking down at the floor the whole time. if you have to look somewhere, look eye-level or up.

7. people who are bored with you will look down at something, usually.

8. they will also respond with less enthusiasm (shorter responses, less variation in tone, etc.)

9. they might also tense up (shoulders move toward neck)

honestly though

most of socialization is just pattern recognition. after you do enough of it, you will recognize certain patterns in communication and you will learn how to vary from those.

A lot of socialization is assumed common knowledge base. e.g. you can flirt with people who are 21+ in ways that you could not with people who are 18, because people who are three years younger have not spent that time acquainting themselves with the "metagame" of flirting. the same "metagame" concept exists for non-flirting socialization as well.

if you want to learn how to read body language well, take an acting course. you will feel like a massive idiot but that's normal, and you will learn a lot about body language that you didn't before. I've taken body language analysis courses, and I don't think they are as effective as actually getting in there and performing, then getting feedback on what you did, then analyzing what other people do and giving that same feedback.

empathy has nothing to do with any of this. I could be a complete psychopath and smooth over people socially. it's all pattern recognition.

[A2P]

or you could just give up and not care, like I do.

[rushyrulz]

Originally Posted by bmah

Have you practised looking for visual cues in a conversation? It's important to decipher people's facial expressions and hand movements to help get a sense of how to go about characterizing your conversation. It's also important for you to make appropriate visual cues for the other person; for instance, if it's casual and friendly, smile a bit.

There's of course more to it than visual cues, but that'll help at least.

This. I've somehow gotten really good at reading people within the first 15 seconds of talking and changing myself to most suit the person I'm talking to. I don't know of anyone in real life that legitimately doesn't like me. On the internet it's a completely different story cuz fuck you people. jkily

Just try to adapt to your surroundings. The better you are at that, the more friends you will make (because you're better socially with the people you talk to.)

[thesunfan]

I feel like what I have to say probably isn't consistent with what everyone else has said so far, but I guess I'll say it anyways.

In high school, I was pretty goddamn awkward. When I got to college, I wasn't. None of it was empathy, or me trying to read other people, though I do think I got better at reading after I started college, it was just getting out and doing stuff like Freshman-only OA stuff at the rec where talking to people is a big part of it. I guess I do owe a lot to some people I met here, cracking me out of my shell, and from what it sounds like, you should probably try and find someone that can do that for you.

My 2c, hope it helps somewhat.

[DossarLX ODI]

What I have the most difficulty with is when someone is finishing what they are saying. Generally it's good to have some "thinking time" for the other person you're talking to so they don't feel rushed; sometimes people will stutter in their train of thought and say something along the lines of "well it, it, it, it's more like" and when that happens I just stay silent and listen rather than try to finish their sentences.

Sometimes there's also that time of silence after someone is talking with me because I'm not sure if they are done speaking or not and sometimes I accidentally speak when someone is still trying to finish their thoughts.

I try showing a light-hearted attitude to indicate that I am easy to approach. This helped me throughout high school and reduced awkward silences by a lot. The context is important as well; I wouldn't be making a million stepmania or FFR jokes to someone that doesn't go on this site, and so on.

[tosh]

Originally Posted by bmah

Have you practised looking for visual cues in a conversation?

Maybe I'm just weird, but I'm much better at conversing if I can't see the person/people I'm talking with. You could blindfold me and I would have no problems keeping up a conversation. But actually looking at the person destroys my thought process.

[drizzleRomanceGirl]

Originally Posted by Dynam0

I had a roommate in university who acted very similarly in conversations; he was an incredibly nice guy with a big heart and a good sense of humour. I personally loved talking to him but that wasn't the case with others, simply because he wouldn't hold a conversation the same way some social butterfly would. Finding an end to a convo was difficult for him as well so I would have to give him hints or cues to let him know that we were done talking. I noticed a huge improvement in his ability to engage in social situations throughout the 3 years that I knew him while I was at school though.

I think the biggest help to you would be the understanding social cues point because you can find a way around a conversational barrier regardless of whether or not you have empathy (though empathy helps). I wouldn't beat yourself up over this too much though because as much as my roommate was awkward to chat with sometimes, it's what made him who he was and he was a genuine guy.

Thank you for the advice. I'm going to try to read and pay attention to how the person I'm talking with is affected by the conversation so I can react naturally. ^.^

Originally Posted by Arch0wl

conversations are one skill I've learned to get pretty good at so I'll drop a few things

1. question-commentary. there needs to be some kind of alternation. this is perhaps the most fundamental structure of conversation, and the most socially awkward people (like, beyond just "a little awkward") don't ask questions.

2. keep mental time of how long you are talking about shit. time is relative, 10 seconds past 60 seconds of you talking feels like forever, but the first 10 seconds of what you have to say doesn't feel long at all.

3. if there is an awkward silence it's because one of you doesn't know a good transition. think of one. ask something. comment on something. there is never a reason for an awkward silence in conversation.

4. make eye contact.

5. do not make extended direct eye contact unless you want to communicate that you want to fuck them. look at the spot directly above someone's eyebrow; this is the more effective place to look.

6. it's okay to break eye contact. people do this all the time. you just can't be looking down at the floor the whole time. if you have to look somewhere, look eye-level or up.

7. people who are bored with you will look down at something, usually.

8. they will also respond with less enthusiasm (shorter responses, less variation in tone, etc.)

9. they might also tense up (shoulders move toward neck)

honestly though

most of socialization is just pattern recognition. after you do enough of it, you will recognize certain patterns in communication and you will learn how to vary from those.

A lot of socialization is assumed common knowledge base. e.g. you can flirt with people who are 21+ in ways that you could not with people who are 18, because people who are three years younger have not spent that time acquainting themselves with the "metagame" of flirting. the same "metagame" concept exists for non-flirting socialization as well.

if you want to learn how to read body language well, take an acting course. you will feel like a massive idiot but that's normal, and you will learn a lot about body language that you didn't before. I've taken body language analysis courses, and I don't think they are as effective as actually getting in there and performing, then getting feedback on what you did, then analyzing what other people do and giving that same feedback.

empathy has nothing to do with any of this. I could be a complete psychopath and smooth over people socially. it's all pattern recognition.

I understand; I'll try to ask questions and listen to the other person so that it becomes a balanced dialogue and not a monologue. I appreciate that you listed each tip and I'll try to keep these things in mind while speaking.

Originally Posted by thesunfan

I feel like what I have to say probably isn't consistent with what everyone else has said so far, but I guess I'll say it anyways.

In high school, I was pretty goddamn awkward. When I got to college, I wasn't. None of it was empathy, or me trying to read other people, though I do think I got better at reading after I started college, it was just getting out and doing stuff like Freshman-only OA stuff at the rec where talking to people is a big part of it. I guess I do owe a lot to some people I met here, cracking me out of my shell, and from what it sounds like, you should probably try and find someone that can do that for you.

My 2c, hope it helps somewhat.

Yeah, that's probably part of the reason I'm not that good with social cues; I am going to try to participate in more college events and interact with more people. ^.^

Originally Posted by DossarLX ODI

What I have the most difficulty with is when someone is finishing what they are saying. Generally it's good to have some "thinking time" for the other person you're talking to so they don't feel rushed; sometimes people will stutter in their train of thought and say something along the lines of "well it, it, it, it's more like" and when that happens I just stay silent and listen rather than try to finish their sentences.

Sometimes there's also that time of silence after someone is talking with me because I'm not sure if they are done speaking or not and sometimes I accidentally speak when someone is still trying to finish their thoughts.

I try showing a light-hearted attitude to indicate that I am easy to approach. This helped me throughout high school and reduced awkward silences by a lot. The context is important as well; I wouldn't be making a million stepmania or FFR jokes to someone that doesn't go on this site, and so on.

I see; do you have any specific advice for exactly how to know when someone is finished speaking so there's not a pause at the end of the conversation?

P.S. Thank you for all of your advice, everyone! I'm learning a lot from all your different perspectives.

[SC_coolguy44]

I have some of the exact same conversation problems mentioned in this thread. I also have trouble starting conversations, just walking up to someone and saying hi, and telling someone what's on my mind (mostly this has something to do with the emotional side of things). Also, I feel when I'm in real life conversations that I appear to be very emotionless and expressionless and I don't want to come off that way. When I'm talking on the phone, I guess I could say my conversations are a little better. Also, I don't know if this is because of my awkwardness but my friends that are in my area (locally) or my high school friends have never really invited me to much of any social events/outings (I went to one I was invited to in college and felt left out because I was quiet the whole time and everyone was drinking and I was the only one who didn't drink).

[drizzleRomanceGirl]

Originally Posted by SC_coolguy44

I have some of the exact same conversation problems mentioned in this thread. I also have trouble starting conversations, just walking up to someone and saying hi, and telling someone what's on my mind (mostly this has something to do with the emotional side of things). Also, I feel when I'm in real life conversations that I appear to be very emotionless and expressionless and I don't want to come off that way. When I'm talking on the phone, I guess I could say my conversations are a little better. Also, I don't know if this is because of my awkwardness but my friends that are in my area (locally) or my high school friends have never really invited me to much of any social events/outings (I went to one I was invited to in college and felt left out because I was quiet the whole time and everyone was drinking and I was the only one who didn't drink).

Maybe you should ask your friends to invite you to more parties. I hope you will be perceived the way you'd like to be in a conversation! ^.^

[SC_coolguy44]

Originally Posted by drizzleRomanceGirl

Maybe you should ask your friends to invite you to more parties. I hope you will be perceived the way you'd like to be in a conversation! ^.^

Well I do, but I still don't get invited. Over half the parties of my college friends are parties where they get drunk from what I heard and that's not my scene.

[DefTeaMachine]

Personally I find he best way to associate is to just sit there at the table while other people are chating and then hit a beat when they enevitably ask me to start beatboxing.

[drizzleRomanceGirl]

Originally Posted by SC_coolguy44

Well I do, but I still don't get invited. Over half the parties of my college friends are parties where they get drunk from what I heard and that's not my scene.

I understand; I don't drink alcohol either and don't attend many parties. Have you tried throwing your own party?

[SC_coolguy44]

Originally Posted by drizzleRomanceGirl

I understand; I don't drink alcohol either and don't attend many parties. Have you tried throwing your own party?

Yes, I have tried throwing my own parties and nobody showed up. Either I got stood up or people legitimately cancelled at the last second without telling me (it really pisses me off when people do stuff to me without warning).

[drizzleRomanceGirl]

Originally Posted by SC_coolguy44

Yes, I have tried throwing my own parties and nobody showed up. Either I got stood up or people legitimately cancelled at the last second without telling me (it really pisses me off when people do stuff to me without warning).

I'm sorry to hear that. >.< I hope you have a much better experience next time.

[kommisar]

One thing that helped me over the years is reading people by putting myself in their shoes. I imagine myself being told what I'm saying and I judge the effect from that. Would I care if I were to hear what I say? Would I be able to carry a conversation? In some cases even the most trivial conversations about random things can spark interest. Confidence is a massive factor, but ideally I like to imagine how well I'd react to what I say.

Sometimes even if it's stupid stuff I'll run my mouth and talk about a lot of things. As long as its within a range of interest I won't sound like I'm annoying. That takes experience from talking with various types of people though.

[Cavernio]

Originally Posted by drizzleRomanceGirl

I understand; I don't drink alcohol either and don't attend many parties. Have you tried throwing your own party?

Maybe you should try drinking alcohol.

That was actually kinda serious. Alcohol is known to make social awkwardness melt away. There's a reason parties and blind dates often are alcohol-centric, while smaller get-togethers with close friends don't have that stereotype attached. Heck, bars exist for that reason. I know that that doesn't really help reading cues and all, but it might make conversation more enjoyable anyways.

This isn't much help, but I think perhaps the best thing would be for you to find specific people who you feel that you can get along with, people who will naturally help you, kinda like Devonin said. If you're really as bad as you say you are, you don't want subtle hints that could be construed multiple different ways. You need something solid. Perhaps your roomates could help you with this, since you're going to have to interact with them while you live in the same space. If you trust them enough, you could simply tell them one day that you're bad at reading social cues, and you want them to blatantly let you know when, for example, a conversation is over, or if you're being to weird with something. If I were one of your roommates, I'd certainly feel less awkward just after having that conversation with you, as weird as it would be, and it would also make me feel alright about being blunt with you in the future. I suspect social niceties and worries about hurting your feelings make things more awkward than they need to be, even with your lack of skills.

[Dynam0]

Uh...how will drinking alcohol help when the focus is understanding social cues and not releasing inhibitions? That would most likely make the situation more awkward because now you've opened the floodgates for any off-colour remarks to come to light. That roommate I was talking about earlier is a prime example. Give him a few glasses of wine and it would worsen his awkwardness since being reserved and shy was what kept some of the out-of-place comments in check.

[andy-o24]

I actually just had experience with that last night. A guy on our floor was throwing a party with a half gallon of vodka and one of the smaller guys on our floor, 5'3", 135 he said, had eight shots and was plastered.

But this brought out a side of him that none of us had experienced yet. He was talking and acting goofy and saying a bunch of dumb things. We took him up to the eighth floor of the building to talk to a girl we knew he liked because of how he was acting. Naturally he is very quiet and does not say much, but with alcohol in him, he was the center of attention and was talking a lot. Granted, some of the things he said were not exactly appropriate for everyday conversation, but it did loosen him up.

So, like Dynamo said, it can eliminate a conversation filter and allow for some rude or inappropriate comments to come out, but along with that it can also open a person up to talking more. Drinking will do little for your social cue identification, but it can help you talk to more people and perhaps have them be more inclined to talk to you.

-o24

[dAnceguy117]

In the long run, I don't think alcohol is the solution here.

[kommisar]

fjoi;ewrjfciowes did someone actually suggest that