School systems in America.

[D4rkAng3l]

i think the principal lowers the expectations because if he doesnt make AYP (AYP is a standard that the scool boards put on major tests such as the FCAT) standards the principal will be fired and the school will have a poor reputation
or because theyre just plain LAZY because my 8 year old cousin is learning semetry and degrees and hes in kindergarten (people in China require kids to stay in a certain grade for 2 years)

P.S.dsadsadsa your in IB dang you must be smart (i live in Florida)

[dsadsadsa]

Originally Posted by Laharl

The top 10% of American students outperform the top 10% of any other country, or at least are on equal footing.

Why do you think that the most intelligent people from other countries seek a college education at an American university?

For the first thing, no they don't. We lose every intelegence competition, and we usually place really really close to last place.

For the second thing, the topic is on highschools, and come time for college, 50% of students drop out because the standards shoot through the roof of what they are used to from highschool.

[Kilgamayan]

Originally Posted by T0rajir0u

Edit: You know what would be nice? If education was a market. There's plenty of demand for it, which would produce a lot of competition, and the quality of the product would skyrocket as a result.

That's what college is for.

Also, Squeek, regardless of what happened in 2000, we did vote Bush in back in 2004.

[Laharl]

Originally Posted by dsadsadsa

For the first thing, no they don't. We lose every intelegence competition, and we usually place really really close to last place.

For the second thing, the topic is on highschools, and come time for college, 50% of students drop out because the standards shoot through the roof of what they are used to from highschool.

I'm looking for studies to prove what I'm saying, but I'm not able to find any studies showing comparisons between school students in different countries.

First to provide a link wins. Wins what, I dont know, but wins.

[T0rajir0u]

Originally Posted by Kilgamayan

That's what college is for.

SUGOI~

^______________^

[Reach]

Originally Posted by Laharl

People spout out how American students don't perform as well as students from other countries.

That is a MYTH. Yes, on average, it is true, but that's because the VAST majority of the rest of the modern world weeds out the lower ends of their classes year by year. The top 10% of American students outperform the top 10% of any other country, or at least are on equal footing.

Why do you think that the most intelligent people from other countries seek a college education at an American university?

I'd bet a lot of money some european countries and east asian countries would completely mop the floor with american kids.

Mind you, the quality of life in some of the asian countries is horrible. Their lives revolve around education, and that certainly isn't a good thing.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfRUMmTs0ZA


As much as I'm sure some of it is skewed, it's fairly sad.

[hund]

Im not sure exactly what we are talking about here, because there are three different discussions going on. Highschool education, college education, and who the h*** voted for Pres. Bush.

If we are still talking about the highschool education system, you have to relize that all highschools are different. If you go to Maine, its going to be different than Nevada.
Now, I went to two different highschools. One was a DODS (Department of Defense Schools) and the other was in Florida, Rockledge to be exact. Now when I was at the American Government run school, it was the best education I ever had in any grade level. Now why is this? It is because the government ran it and they payed the teachers to teach us. If the teachers sucked, they got fired. Also, on the subject of paying teachers, the DODS teachers were payed EXTEMELY well. They were the ones driving new BMWs (I lived in Germany when I went to a DOD School) not the students, like when I was in Florida. Because the teachers were payed well and had to perform well, or they would be sent back to the US, so the students were taught better than a non-pubic highschool. I say non-public because, I would assume, a non-public school is like a DOD school where the teachers had to perform well or they would be fired.
Now when I was in Florida, I was very disapointed because it was nowhere near the level of education that I was just at. And so because of this I was fed information on Monday and #2ed it out on Friday and forgot it by Saturday. BUT, I did very well in school, I think I had a 3.4 overall GPA or something around it, when I graduated. I dont remember, it has been over 3 years since I graduated. Anyway, I had that because before any major test we spent two weeks going over everything on the test. I am sure this is what some if not most of you did before a test. And the teacher went over the questions on the actual test, BEFORE THE TEST.
At this point I would like to ask any college student, if this is what happens in college. I would assume that the professor doesnt go over the test before the test and that is why most college student fail out of college. I dont know much of anything on the subject of college, because I went the Marine Corps route in life.

[dsadsadsa]

Originally Posted by D4rkAng3l

P.S.dsadsadsa your in IB dang you must be smart (i live in Florida)

Meh, Pre-IB is only a little bit better than honours, I'm leaving after this year. Once the real IB program starts it's about 3-4 hours of homework a night. I would rather not... Where in Florida are you?
e

[Reach]

ps hund's rule

At this point I would like to ask any college student, if this is what happens in college. I would assume that the professor doesnt go over the test before the test and that is why most college student fail out of college. I dont know much of anything on the subject of college, because I went the Marine Corps route in life.

lol

Well here at my university, it's completely different than highschool. Profs don't particularily care about you in large classes, IE first and second year classes. They basically lecture the material to you, and you're expected to know it. You don't even need to go to class if you want to because your mark is entirely tests and labs.

They're not going to tell you what's on the test...yea right. They're going to say "You're responsible for Chapters such and such, there will be 40 questions on the test." or something along those lines. They also don't give a **** if you thought the test was unfair ect, though the majority of profs do put together a fair exam, there are some that do not and do not care.


You have to be willing to put a lot of time into your studies in college/university because profs really don't teach you much, they present the material to you but most of the learning is done yourself, unlike highschool, which is why most people get slaughtered on college exams.

But how much the prof teaches you really depends, so it's good to look up your profs on rate a prof or something before hand. The majority of profs are researchers, not teachers, so naturally this doesn't necessarily mean they're good at teaching the material.

Once the real IB program starts it's about 3-4 hours of homework a night

What. 3-4 hours a night? What the ****?

I didn't take IB.



From what i've heard and read from the IB books, the program isn't that great. The IB math books are easier than the books we were using. The material is all fluffed up with no real content and is full of lots of bull**** that doesn't really enhance your learning experience, atleast not here.


And all that homework isn't going to prepare you for college. You don't even get ****ing 'homework' in college. You have to do lab reports, but that's it. The majority of your time is going to be study.

[dsadsadsa]

Excactly. More the reason to leave IB.

My economics teacher today was telling me about how some college professors are simply there to fund some of their own research, not giving a flying **** about the student. Makes complete sense to me. They aren't payed to baby the students through college, they are payed to teach kids, and they aren't excactly "Evaluated" like highschool teachers are.

All this adds up to the fact that American high schools bluntly fail at preparing kids for college.

[esupin]

Maybe we should just all boycott college.

I think the real question is what can we do about it? Not much. It feels good to shake your fist at the establishment, though, right? Once profs get tenured, they can (pretty much) do anything they want. Those that aren't might not get payed enough to care. Some universities are research based, which means their livelihood revolves around getting grants and having professors and students do research.

[Laharl]

No, seriously. The United States has some of the best colleges in the world. The average university in the United States actually teaches pretty well. Perhaps not in lower level courses (If I ever have another math teacher that doesn't speak English, I will kill myself), but really, going through college will get you a pretty good education.

People love to quote statistics, like they mean something. Okay, so maybe on a statistical level, we're not at the top. Big deal. I seem to be able to handle following any conversation I've ever had with someone from other countries that have done rather WELL in said other countries that tend to do very well in "internation competitions" when it comes to the smartz.

There are still more inventions coming out of the United States that catch on world-wide than any other country. Just about every major appliance can trace back to the US somehow (TV, computers, radios, etc. etc.)

I think this whole "problem" with education is played up. The real problem with education is that it's not needed to make a decent living anymore. In fact, most jobs that yield good entry level money and are stable, easy-to-find work don't require much of an education at all. Doctors and lawyers make good money, to be sure, but only if they are good, and it's a highly competitive environment.

[heidzo63]

Our idea of a "school system" and "learning" is completely backwards. What good is memorizing information if all you're going to do with it is regurgitate it on a test? I've had teachers who've let us memorize formulas 2 seconds before the test, hand out the test with some scratch paper, let us write the formulas on the scratch paper, then just use that on the whole test. I know after memorization like that, I've forgotten it within a month. This is NOT learning, it's NOT knowledge- it's having bits of information and then just spitting them out at the teacher. What we really need to learn is application. We don't just need to know- we need to know why. Instead of memorizing kinematic equations on a test his freshman year, by brother just knew the postulates and derived the equations he needed on each test. My teacher never taught us the postulates of equations. We're just supposed to memorize them. Not only is memorization useless, grades are also arbitrary. If I asked a fellow high school classmate, "Why do you want to know ____?" nearly all of them would answer "So I can get a good grade on the test. " "Why do you want to do good on the test?" "So I can get a good grade in ____ class." "Why do you want to get a good grade?" "So I can graduate from high school." "Why do you want to graduate from high school?" "So I can get to college." "Why do you want to get to college?" "So I can get a job." "Why do you want to get a job?" "So I can get money and not be poor." Pretty much, we want to get good grades because we want to get rich. What are grades a measure of, anyways? It sure isn't a measure of knowledge or intelligence. Anybody could get good grades-it's a measure of meticulousness, perfectionism, and how many hours you spend each night doing busywork.
We really have a lot to improve in our schools.

[dsadsadsa]

Originally Posted by Laharl

There are still more inventions coming out of the United States that catch on world-wide than any other country. Just about every major appliance can trace back to the US somehow (TV, computers, radios, etc. etc.)

.look who produces to most TVs. Sony, and other over-seas companies. We may have invented those things back in the 50's, but the people over sees APPLYED it, and made it better.

And yeah, I hear what you said, heidzo, pretty much every 3rd period word for word.

[Laharl]

Taking in to account the massive outscourcing the United States does in order to make our stuff cheaper, it's not a surprise that we don't actually PRODUCE the stuff, no.

We just own everything that does.

[Fastfingers21]

Bush: The president has done a good job as far as education goes. American citizens are pretty dumb in general, they just show up to the polls so they see if they can get high of the "I voted touchscreen" sticker. Jeb Bush the governor of Florida (I live there) has done a very good job at changing the system for the better.

[Fastfingers21]

Too many Americans are too dumb to vote. Encouraging everyone to vote is dumb because only people who care enough to get off there ass and go vote should. Im sick of people who only make one political point ever, Bush is dumb.
NO BUSH IS NOT DUMB THERE WERE REASONS FOR GOING TO IRAQ I LOVE HIS TAX CUTS AND HE IS GOOD FOR EDUCATION.







WHO CARES IF THE VICE PRES HAD A NON-LETHAL FULLY FORGIVEN HUNTING ACCIDENT ???

[sherbtail]

Im not sure if that last post was being sarcastic or not...
but i hope it was...

anyway, Im a brit who lived in America for about four years, and I have to say I love the school system over here in England so much more than over there. Its probably just the way ive been brought up, but even though I only do three subjects in high school here (maths, biology and chemistry) there seems to be so much more variety to my average day than in american school which had the same 8 lessons every day! And school here just seems so much more relaxed somehow...

Also, your universities/colleges are so flooooping expensive!! whats with that...? although to be fair the price of uni here is doubling next year (the year i start, sucks to be me...)

Jorje Bush is just wrong... I dont know about stuff going on in america (taxes, education etc.) but with the war in Iraq, his support for Israel in the war against Lebanon this summer and the ongoing use of tortue in Guantanemo Bay, hes damaged the USAs international reputation SO much...

[RandomPscho]

Im not sure if that last post was being sarcastic or not...
but i hope it was...

No, he was being serious. Who cares? everyone has accidents. News exaggerated it out of proportion.

[Billydude]

I think U.S.A. should just create a machine that kids put on their heads everyday and it just crams information into their brain in a part of their brain where they wont forget. Although these would be expensive in the long run it would save more money. We wouldn't have to by supplies and schools and pay teachers. And Im honestly not joking. I think in the next 100 years or so we should have that.