jTWG LXXVII: DFR and the Six Dakis: Reloaded GAME THREAD

[thesunfan]

also start playing like a man u manly man u

[Charles Claythorne]

Originally Posted by thesunfan

my current thoughts are something like from wolfiest to least wolfy

mashi
help
plop

xel

anyone else

I voted jrodd for a reaction which I got, and I think I got a pretty good one.

plop had a big post which was good but I'd still put him at wolfy. I'm giving him ONE day probably.

help is talking about the future and what his reads will be like based on a certain set of conditions which I have not seen from him ever. Would lynch.

Mashi I literally have no reasoning beyond his waffling reads which are hard for me to follow (I think he might be playing the tune the crowd wants to hear) and a lotta bit of a gutread.

xel is a maybe my read depends on actually getting fully prepared for this game.

where I'm at. Still haven't reread. When I finish this ENV SCI exam I'm pulling an all-nighter so prepare for jTWGs first ever decapost string.

your reads sux

[Charles Claythorne]

Originally Posted by j-rodd123

i will mason with you today though yes, and if ur a wolf you can laugh at me post game

j-rodd :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(

[Charles Claythorne]

Also, I'm about as confident with Chariplop being Human as I was with Zenith last Day Phase, so I completely disagree with a lynch on him.

[j-rodd123]

That would be funny I still have him in the bottom half of my reads list. Why do u think mashi is wolfier than plop? Do u find plop is playing with a weird sense of confidence that he lacked in the past? I think that's what I had difficulty articulating d1, like in the game I tried to CFD dabackpack when he was a wolf and plop was definitely open to the idea and here it's like he's a definite leader especially with easy to do as a wolf when there was v/v wagons. I'm on my phone so I already tell this doesn't make sense

[j-rodd123]

Originally Posted by Charles Claythorne

j-rodd :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(

We can be masons who disagree on everything

[Charles Claythorne]

Originally Posted by j-rodd123

We can be masons who disagree on everything

youre my favourite mason <333

[AragakiAyase]

AragakiAyase: My waifu is so cuuuuuute. Also I'm VT and if you doubt me come at me I'll take you on.


Town lean:

Charles Claythorne: First of all mega points because he thinks my waifu is cute. But Mashi is my new strongest town lean at the moment. He's been making good posts all game and probing (stealing that word for lack of a better one) everyone to figure out what they're thinking and gather information. In this post he addresses some concerns and questions plop's read of himself, greg, and jrodd. He calls Greg out here on some inconsistencies although Greg addresses them (well enough for my taste at least). He has his eye on Plop for a while and continuously pushes him but reverses his stance after conceding that he misread into some things. He has another good post during the night here which I would find extremely unlikely for a wolf to do. Posting big analytical posts is already towny but posting during the night in order to get more info out in case of a nightkill is even more towny. He pushed me here to elaborate on my thoughts on potential wolves although I realized that I had failed to consider the possibility of a v/v wagon (which it was). Then lastly there's this huge post that refreshes his reads on all the other players in the game. The two things that concern me are the ease at which he throws out LOCK CLEAR on players, something that I thought shouldn't be done easily. Maybe he's joking but I can't tell too much. Another thing is how quickly he reversed his stance on plop after a couple of big posts from him. Yes posting and contributing is towny but a veteran wolf could easily do that so I wouldn't be so quick to lock clear plop. All that being said though Mashi is still my strongest town lean.

TheSunFan: Greg tried to meta me hard as a wolf early D1 because I wasn't playing as obviously town as last game, which (no offense) I thought was pretty stupid. #1 it's only my 2nd game, #2 labeling someone as a wolf because they're not obviously town is heavily polarizing and not good play. However since then he's come around a lot. He has a lot of jokey posts but this seems to be more in line with his jTWG play in general so nothing much to get out of that without overreading into it. His behavior at eod1 was kind of odd and seemed very wishy washy but he was pretty rushed and if his explanation is to believe his choice was reasonable. Doesn't help that it was a v/v wagon between zenith and squirl going at each other's throats. Offered to make some content posts during the night but retracted his offer which I didn't like as much, but this post, although seemingly jokey strikes me as somewhat sincere at least and obviously not something a wolf would say. Or maybe I'm completely blind but I'm rolling with it. He probes a lot of player's on their thoughts which is good. Overall I'd like to see some more substantial posts from Greg but for now I'm leaning him town in large part due to his seemingly sincere reactions. What he posts overnight will help me figure out a bit more.

Null:

MrPopadopalis25: Like I said earlier, I really don't know how to read plop. I feel like I keep switching my read on him back and forth which isn't helpful. His early game felt pretty weak to me but he chalked it up to playing more laid back due to it being a jTWG which I'll buy for now. I liked this post where he cautioned Zenith on tunneling in on someone and not considering the other possibilities. I mentioned this earlier but I didn't like his definitive posts here and here. He sounds so confident and seems like he's trying to push more votes on Zenith. Granted Zenith's play was very wolfy and it's possible it was just a bad misread (and bad play on Zenith's part) but it still bugs me. He supports helphelp here which I noticed but as of now I'm leaving it at alignment-neutral. Overall has some good posts but some of them seem a little strange to me so I'm not sure what to make of him. If I had to pick very slight town rather than wolf.

j-rodd123: Claimed seer at the start of game, I thought he was serious but at this point almost certainly not. Later hardclaimed VT but who knows about that as well. Backs up Xel on D1 but later retracts his support and pings him out for his inactivity. He made a good point in that it would be very unlikely for him to have made the nightkill on squirl which helps him although he could have killed squirl for that very reason in order to distance himself. Most of his posts haven't been very substantial although there are a few that have had good insight, such as this one where he clears Mashi. Overall though I feel he's not playing as aggressively as he could be and seems like he's holding things back. There have been several times where he's offered info but held a lot of stuff back on account of laziness, like here and here (also note he offers a reread but either I missed it or don't see it). His hardclaim also seems pretty flippant. I also don't like when he rejects the offer of more content because I think content almost always helps town. Overall I think jrodd isn't trying as hard as he normally does and while being busy may be a factor my opinion still stands. Slight wolf lean if anything.

Wolf lean:

helphelp11: I already addressed help in an earlier post but basically he hasn't been contributing all game and has been playing somewhat UTR and making fake seeming posts in what seems like an attempt to fake active participation. He has as many posts as our shitty (wonderful) host which is pretty bad by any standard. Here he starts with his usual opening, which while it might be meta for him is still weak. Here and here he has some awkward interactions centered around/with jrodd, showing the reactive playstyle he's had all game. This is his biggest post but his reads are light at best. You could attribute it to not knowing the meta of other players well and it being the beginning of the game but taking all his most recent posts into account I really dislike that post. He posts again here when I push him but again, only in response to someone pinging him out. No self-initiative to scumhunt whatsoever. He asks some questions but he doesn't actually do much probing, making me think that those questions are just to make himself stand out less. Basically he provides very little content, mostly commentary and has some odd interactions with jrodd and seems to be trying to avoid attention. Strongest wolf lean for sure and I'm going to grill him (nicely cause jtwg) until he's obviously wolf or town.

XelNya: Ok at this point I've been writing this post for way too long but basically Xel has been pretty UTR for the most part.

[AragakiAyase]

goddamn that took way too long

[AragakiAyase]

going to bed now will be on my phone for a bit though

[thesunfan]

don't u dare say mashi is more town than I am I'll fite u

[Charles Claythorne]

wth, dont threaten aragakiayase i will beat u up, tsundere-chan

[AragakiAyase]

Originally Posted by thesunfan

don't u dare say mashi is more town than I am I'll fite u

Atm he's putting in more work

[thesunfan]

gloves r comin OFF 2nite

[Charles Claythorne]

AragakiAyase is OFFICIALLY my new favourite new TWGer.

[j-rodd123]

I wish I wasn't on my phone. Can someone quote plops reads post for me

[j-rodd123]

I had AA as town before it was cool

[thesunfan]

we all also aren't uncool because none of us would've killed lucy

[j-rodd123]

He voted for me but claimed that I would be PR hunting but maybe didn't have time so let my partner make the kill lol

[AragakiAyase]

Originally Posted by Charles Claythorne

AragakiAyase is OFFICIALLY my new favourite new TWGer.

Why please explain unsubstantiated posts are worse than substantiated ones'


jrodd here you go

Originally Posted by MrPopadopalis25

TOWN:
Sunfan - What I'm seeing from sunfan is indicative of what I'm accustomed to seeing from him as town. He has a solid, genuine sounding tone, and his post about zenith saying "but I don't especially think it'll hit a wolf" really strikes me as something that a wolf wouldn't bother to say. Why open yourself up to the argument of "Well if you didn't think it'd hit why would you vote there?!" unless you're trying to be genuine and inform others of your uncertainty? I mean, he is a skilled player regardless of alignment so I know that he could fake this stuff or calculate what would seem townie, but his tone is just so pure. My main suspicion of him, however, is that his recurring comments about being short on time or having only skimmed things or read posts early in the morning or needing to reread/rethink could be a way of having cover for getting mislynches or making scummy plays. At this point that seems unlikely since his remorse comes across as real, especially in comparison to other games I've played with him where he's been a townie short on time.

Mashi - Earlier I suspected mashi for posting quote walls and not participating in dialogues, acting like he's in a plastic bubble and premeditating everything he posts. However, on my reread I discovered that I was having some confirmation bias happening. Mashi did indeed enter into dialogues, at least around EOD or in his questioning of me and my motivations. Him having me as his super duper, tunnel-worthy, let's-lynch-this-dude-pronto top scum read for all of the game but then relenting and reconsidering his take once the day phase/my posting began is very townie to me too.

NULL:
AA - AA is an odd one. He responds and defends himself without fail to every accusation that's made against him, which I think is more townie than scummy (ie town player tries to prevent mislynch and prove purity, wolf shrugs off a few of the attacks so as to not look so defensive and draw attention to how much they're being attacked), and he seems adamant to solve the game, understand why people are thinking the way they are (especially in accusing him, like when he tried to get inside squirrel's head), and earlier was starved for content. And yet, I noticed on my reread that despite wishing for content and dialogue, once I posted that reads list that mashi et al disliked he never commented on it. I feel like if he were starved for something then he could've dissected that a little bit. Also, his read on squirrel is kinda odd: he began by saying that squirrel was his strongest town read, then at 303 he questioned squirrel a bit and pointed out some stuff he disliked about him but said that he was still reading squirrel town regardless of the shade he casted, then closer to EOD after zenith had pushed on squirrel he said “squirrel seems town,” then after the lynch he suspected squirrel as scum, then on a reread of squirrel's posts he concluded that squirrel was null/slight town and not a strong town like before, then after the nightkill he said that I was his top scum lean because his previous top scum lean, squirrel, who was no longer a null/slight town but a top scum read, was dead and I got promoted from 2nd to 1st. Weird progression, though somewhat understandable I suppose. Null for now, perhaps slight town.

Xel - Began and continued the game with anime gifs and jokes, and at one point he said that nothing had happened yet in the thread with a tone of indignation that sounded genuine to me. He's UTR and cold, which is his wolf meta (or his SK meta ), but his lengthy/detailed write-up about his IRL/job circumstances and reasoning for why he's been UTR and cold looks too detailed to be a lie. I don't think his lack of presence is entirely alignment indicative. His emotion in response to zenith's death seems legitimate too. Also, like jrodd pointed out, wolf xel tends to post some fake content early on to make up for the UTRness and I haven't seen that. I want to see some more content from him to know for certain where I stand though because, despite his circumstances being legitimate, he could still very well be using them to his advantage as scum, and what we have from him right now is too minuscule to be certain about one way or the other.

SCUM:
helphelp – A quick skim of the previous jTWG shows me that he tried to figure things out more so than he's doing here (for instance, examining the reasoning for why people had voted for gradiant). Here he's posting the bare minimum, and several of his posts are “safe” responses that seem like posting for the sake of posting/having a presence without having to voice actual concerns (like asking why people are voting for a certain person, or pointing out the time or game mechanics). I see jokes, I see questions with some follow ups if they aren't answered, I see interjections, but I see no solving of the game aside from his reads post. At 94 he says “Well, I'm here now. Everyone is probably EST, but I'm PST. Yay sleeping,” which reads to me that he's worried about being scumread for lack of presence and content. Normally that would be okay, but he does nothing to mitigate those suspicions. When he does provide content in the forms of a reads list, he doesn't include any scumreads, and he points this out. Additionally, in his reads he says of AA: “Asking questions, getting conversation, which is always good. Town lean,” and then at 241 says of him: “Sure, he seems a bit off because he isn't obviously town, but I'm still at the slight town read. Very slightly.” There was no mention of slight town reads earlier on, only pure town. This strikes me as opportunistic given how he had revised his earlier town read only after AA had been thrown around by sunfan, shadow, and squirrel as a lynch candidate. He did the same thing to squirrel at 322 after Zenith began to push against him too (in his earlier reads squirrel was a slight town). So basically, it's a mix of commentary mode and opportunistic play that's making me read him scum. I'm wary because, as I said before, this could be the mark of an anxious townie, but I'm not feeling that as strongly as I was before. There's still lots of time for him to step it up and prove me wrong though.

Jrodd – This read relies a bit on my read on helphelp. Jrodd, beyond having a clean tone and providing commentary/assistance/the occasional original insight (such as sunfan leaving his vote parked), isn't coming across to me as townie as he tends to. He talks about being uncertain and unsure of who the wolves are, but there isn't much of an attempt to combat that uncertainty and figure things out until after the mislynch and he's in a sort of damage control mode. Where's the WIM that he always carries with him? There's also a suspicious dynamic going on between him and help: at 137 he says help is “kind of” in commentary mode and that with respect to his vote/accusation “you can respond to this.” I know he said that it could be because help is a new player afraid to get his feet wet, but I could see this as coaching his scum partner. Help never responded to jrodd's accusations (despite posting at the same time as jrodd wondering where he was), and jrodd never followed up on his accusations until later in the phase, which is interesting considering that help had posted his reads list while jrodd was in the thread but he ignored it in favor of talking about xel and AA. He got his person of interest to post some content and he didn't do anything with it...no WIM there at all. At 335 he says “in that same mindset, helphelp why haven't you placed a vote yet?”, which seems like coaching because of the call and response phrasing: earlier he points out that sunfan had parked his vote but directs this comment to the thread (ie “sunfan did this which is weird”, not “hey sunfan why'd you do this, it's weird”), whereas with helphelp he talks to him one-on-one. At 370 he drops a vote on helphelp when it was 2/2 between squirrel and zenith and helphelp had no votes, which I think is his last attempt to get his partner to unfreeze during such a crucial time since he posted a minute later talking about choosing between zenith and squirrel, leading me to believe that the helphelp vote was BS to begin with. I could see me misinterpreting the coaching stuff as jrodd trying to coach independent of alignment and simply because of the jtwg setting, but the lack of WIM with respect to one of his top scum leans is too damning to ignore. Also, on the opposite side of the dynamic, helphelp's wordiest post next to his reads list and that one post about AA/squirrel is this relatively unimportant point about jrodd:



Seriously, iso his posts and tell me that this post doesn't stick out in terms of wordiness and depth in comparison to his other posts. In my view, he says a lot about jrodd because jrodd is his partner and what he says about his partner needs to be airtight.