Atheism/Theism thread

[Pseudo Enigma]

Originally Posted by Reincarnate

IMO it comes down to what you mean by "respect."

Do I "respect" your beliefs? Well, by this it means I won't treat you unfairly because you believe in God, because that belief in itself is harmless. It's not affecting me any more than your preference for ice cream. It's what you want to believe -- so be it.

Oh cool someone typed what I wanted to say. I agree.

[Dynam0]

Originally Posted by Reincarnate

Then I kindly ask you to read this and get back to me (it's one page and will take you no more than a couple minutes)

http://www.godlessgeeks.com/LINKS/Dragon.htm

This simply stated that there are no absolute truths, correct? I guess knowing this, I will forever be agnostic then.

I wouldn't care if the universe were created or not anyways. It shouldn't influence how I live my life should it? I see direct physical consequences to actions, none of this 'fate' crap. No divine intervention here. Although as that article says, what is evidence anyways? In the end it's simply a belief and I am probably trying to impose mine on others too much now. See ya

[Reincarnate]

Originally Posted by Dynam0

I wouldn't care if the universe were created or not anyways. It shouldn't influence how I live my life should it?

Whether you care about any of this or not is a separate question from whether or not X is true/false.

Originally Posted by Dynam0

This simply stated that there are no absolute truths, correct? I guess knowing this, I will forever be agnostic then.

The simple point: If something has no physical evidence, it's indistinguishable from that thing not existing.

This applies to infinitely many things. We can't disprove Thor, we can't disprove Zeus, we can't disprove Yahweh, we can't disprove the Flying Spaghetti Monster, we can't disprove the Parallel Dimension of Blue Hedgehogs, etc. There are many things we don't believe it because we have no reason to believe in them until shown otherwise.

Most atheists are technically agnostic atheists -- "We don't believe in Gods, but we don't know for certain." Atheists don't know for a fact that there is no God, but they also don't know for a fact that we all aren't just brains in jars undergoing an Experience Engine Matrix, either. Again, though, until some reason presents itself, why give any one arbitrary evidence-less idea credence over another?

[Attractives New Alt]

many would not consider me religious because i do not attend or belong to any church or formal religious organization, but i have had many religious experiences. i understand what many call "God". my experiences are very real, very concrete, tactile, actual, tangible. there is a fabric that holds us all together, this fabric is god. through god "we" have come into being and through god "we" will no longer be. god is us and we are god. our short earthly lives are filled with the majesty of eternity. we are vessels of god's almighty being. whether we are aware of it or not, we know the farthest stretches of the universe. we know what energies lie beyond, for we are the embodiment of this eternal energy. eternally changing, we are the sum of all existence. when you wake up on a sunny spring morning and the sun caresses your face, know that the sun knows you, for you are one with the stars and the sun.

[Choofers]

Originally Posted by Attractives New Alt

many would not consider me religious because i do not attend or belong to any church or formal religious organization, but i have had many religious experiences. i understand what many call "God". my experiences are very real, very concrete, tactile, actual, tangible. there is a fabric that holds us all together, this fabric is god. through god "we" have come into being and through god "we" will no longer be. god is us and we are god. our short earthly lives are filled with the majesty of eternity. we are vessels of god's almighty being. whether we are aware of it or not, we know the farthest stretches of the universe. we know what energies lie beyond, for we are the embodiment of this eternal energy. eternally changing, we are the sum of all existence. when you wake up on a sunny spring morning and the sun caresses your face, know that the sun knows you, for you are one with the stars and the sun.

i lol'd heartily

[Attractives New Alt]

you might see more if you just close your eyes

[Pseudo Enigma]

Originally Posted by Attractives New Alt

many would not consider me religious because i do not attend or belong to any church or formal religious organization, but i have had many religious experiences. i understand what many call "God". my experiences are very real, very concrete, tactile, actual, tangible. there is a fabric that holds us all together, this fabric is god. through god "we" have come into being and through god "we" will no longer be. god is us and we are god. our short earthly lives are filled with the majesty of eternity. we are vessels of god's almighty being. whether we are aware of it or not, we know the farthest stretches of the universe. we know what energies lie beyond, for we are the embodiment of this eternal energy. eternally changing, we are the sum of all existence. when you wake up on a sunny spring morning and the sun caresses your face, know that the sun knows you, for you are one with the stars and the sun.

aren't you that guy who tried to convince me that life is like a sponge?

[xVaLoRx]

Originally Posted by Attractives New Alt

when you wake up on a sunny spring morning and the sun caresses your face, know that the sun knows you, for you are one with the stars and the sun.

what

[ilikexd]

Originally Posted by Reincarnate

until some reason presents itself, why give any one arbitrary evidence-less idea credence over another?

Are you referring to theism vs. atheism, or one theism versus another?

[Reincarnate]

Originally Posted by ilikexd

Are you referring to theism vs. atheism, or one theism versus another?

In the context of your question, one theism versus another -- but it applies to anything without evidence in general.

[ScylaX]

I like to think that there is a God.
I find it to be intellectually boring to use God as an answer for everything. And I kinda dislike the type of people that will try to convert you or whatever, I find this to be as scary than skinheads filled with hatred toward everything that is alternative to them.

Still I use to think that there is a God.

Also saying there are plenty of bad things that came with religion, implying that religion is more "bad" than "good" is a somewhat simple position to hold. I guess you think the "bad" you consider that emanated from religion had nothing to see with the ignorance of some people or merely the social context around it and all ; most of historical facts have a STRONG historical context to it and I don't think things would have been less... "bloody" if people didn't believed in a supreme being, they believed the beliefs at the time because they had no other way around. All that was about having beliefs about how the world was functioning ;
Then people used religion to legitimate wars and genocides and some shit like that, it doesn't mean religion was essentially bad but that religion was usually used as a tool to serve the interest of the power that led a said country, region, etc.
Rome was a super polytheist country and they didn't made their wars in the name of gods. Still their manners were VERY rough and all.

tl;dr stop making historical reductionism/cum hoc ergo propter hoc sophisms. PLEEEAAASE
The one and only problem I can see is how people can believe in something and force you to it, no need to believe in a religion to do that.

As for me God can be a company.
It's just there to fill the emptiness I can find sometimes.
And I'm really hostile toward any so-called proof pretending that God exists. 100% of the arguments that are saying "IT'S THE ABSOLUTE PROOF OF THE EXISTENCE OF A SUPREME BEING" are bullshit.

I don't know what exactly my definition of God can be, probably not a "supreme being that has all the powers", but this is still there and I like to preserve my belief.
I also have a sincere sympathy for people that believe in god and all, I respect religion, I like the ideas religion can give, how it can make your mind think about new horizons and all. That's what I like about it.

[Reincarnate]

Originally Posted by ScylaX

Also saying there are plenty of bad things that came with religion, implying that religion is more "bad" than "good" is a somewhat simple position to hold. I guess you think the "bad" you consider that emanated from religion had nothing to see with the ignorance of some people or merely the social context around it and all ; most of historical facts have a STRONG historical context to it and I don't think things would have been less... "bloody" if people didn't believed in a supreme being, they believed the beliefs at the time because they had no other way around. All that was about having beliefs about how the world was functioning ;
Then people used religion to legitimate wars and genocides and some shit like that, it doesn't mean religion was essentially bad but that religion was usually used as a tool to serve the interest of the power that led a said country, region, etc.
Rome was a super polytheist country and they didn't made their wars in the name of gods. Still their manners were VERY rough and all.

[0]

all hail the almighty flying spaghetti monster

[adlp]

never fear, adlp is here

[adlp]

the people who say they are atheist because they read the bible are the same people who say they are christian because they read the bible

so

im doubting any of you ever read the bible in full lol stop trying to be profound like that

[customstuff]

Originally Posted by adlp

im doubting any of you ever read the bible in full lol stop trying to be profound like that

To be honest, you can easily see ridiculous, unbelievable, and contradictory statements by reading just a small section of it.

[Choofers]

if you read the bible as a non-fiction piece, I don't understand how you could possibly believe in it after finishing

it's obvious that god is not benevolent and all-powerful

[Reincarnate]

Any rational reading of the Bible makes it pretty abundantly clear that if you take it as any more than mere allegory, you believe in some really weird shit

[Nullifidian]

I'd like to point out a few things that I noticed in the previous thread that bothered me.

A theory is just theory:
A theory is a well-substantiated explanation accounting for a body of well-substantiated facts.
(Someone in previous thread said "just a theory". As Asimov said once: "Creationists make it sound as though a 'theory' is something you dreamt up after being drunk all night". That's in no way the case.)

Atheism is a belief/religion:
Atheism is as much a belief/religion as non-existence is existence. The non-existence of a deity is implicit and inherent, the existence of one is yet to be proven. Believing in the presence is just that; belief. There's no belief required to not believe (herp derp).

[JJTrixX]

Originally Posted by Reincarnate

The difference is that science is based in hard evidence, whereas religion is not.

One thing science will never teach you is 'faith', whereas religion does. The ability to unconditionally believe in something that you can not prove with hard concrete indisputable evidence is far more beautiful and enlightening then any science can ever accomplish.

Love and be loved. The Bible truly is a work of art and there is a reason why it is the greatest story ever written regardless if its content is accurate or fabricated. The Bible's purpose isn't to justify its validity as most naive people suggest, but rather to express the meaning of what 'love' really is and God's overwhelming abundance of it.

"For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved." John 3:17

"We love, because He first loved us." John 4:19

A perfect example to understand this concept would be to imagine if you had a son or a daughter. Wouldn't you love your child? Wouldn't you do anything to protect your own flesh and blood and try to do what's best for them? That natural love that you feel for your children comes from the love that God has for us, for we are all children of God.

Everything is connected. Do not deviate from one another, instead try to understand that we are all pieces of a whole. We must work together as a team if we are to ever experience true bliss. Isn't that what we all seek in life?