What's with the hostility towards Christians?

[NFD]

http://www.tofulator.com/2009/04/02/...epic-question/

[ieatyourlvllol]

Liberal theist here...

The hostility develops because religion as an institutionalized practice typically gives rise to an unwillingness to accept challenge from opposing fronts (e.g. atheists). Particularly in the Southern U.S. (where I live), theists are often taught to hold unquestioning faith without much regard for the implications of science. As a result, they tend to outright deny legitimate arguments rather than offering an earnest rebuttal. Unfortunately, due to their prevalence, these "irrational" theists compose most of the image of religion, which has consequently become an object of contempt. It's a bit disheartening for "rational" theists such as myself, although the modern era is seeing a rise in the popularity of personalized religion.

Similarly, atheism is also unfairly antagonized since some people (from both sides) misinterpret it as an attempt to argue against a belief itself instead of what the belief actually entails (e.g. the existence of a deity).

At any rate, the important thing to know is that a belief has significance because it can be challenged. If you don't have to defend something, what is its worth? Quite clearly, faith in the purest philosophical sense requires the ability to defend and maintain a belief, not just to espouse it. Without this dimension, although faith can still have practical value, it is essentially devoid of meaning.

[dean_machine]

If you have time to spend about 40 minutes to watch a video about the validity of the bible, please watch this: mms://wm-ondemand.abacast.com/church53/03-08-09.wmv
Skip about 20 minutes of the way through, but please watch to the end if you do watch it.

[Dr Tran]

biased video is a trustworthy video

[Tokzic]

Originally Posted by dean_machine

I think a good reason why is because the Christian faith is offensive to anyone who doesn't accept that they are going to judged for their sins and go to hell. If one chooses not to believe in Christ and follow his ways, they're going to Hell because they have sinned (which is turning away from god's commandments which is the same as not choosing to do what we know is right because God's law is in our hearts) and on Judgement Day God judges us acording to our deeds.

But Jesus paid the price of our sins for those that believe in him, and will be made right in God's eyes.

Nobody cares about being judged when they don't believe in it. It's not offensive. If I told you that, when you die, the Overseer Unicorn Xegon will Impale evildoers with his Horn of Judgment, how would you react? Okay, well, that's how we react when you tell us we're going to hell.

Why do you talk of your religion like it's fact when there's no evidence whatsoever? It's really pretentious.

Originally Posted by dean_machine

Also the Christian belief is higher than any other in the whole world so it's even easier to attack Christians.

Wrong. Islam is the single largest denomination.

Unless you mean "high" as in "better" in some way, in which case you've got a big head.

Also, stop trying to play victim. Nobody's singling you out. Everyone in this thread, and everyone who is anti-religion, doesn't have a particular hatred towards christianity. You're just like any other religion.

Originally Posted by dean_machine

If you have time to spend about 40 minutes to watch a video about the validity of the bible, please watch this: mms://wm-ondemand.abacast.com/church53/03-08-09.wmv
Skip about 20 minutes of the way through, but please watch to the end if you do watch it.

This is about hostility towards religion and anti-religious sentiments. This isn't about whether or not your religion is right. Frankly, I don't care to watch an hour of the same flawed, nonsensical arguments I hear regularly from christians who have duped themselves into thinking there's rational thinking involved in faith.

[sp1nzoK]

I don't judge religious people, it's actually a good thing if people can get strength to go on from religion even if it's unrational.

I'm an apatheist myself and I really hate God personifications. In my opinion if there is a God it should be synonym for the Universe and its laws.

To quote Richard Dawkins:
"I am against religion because it teaches us to be satisfied with not understanding the world."

I hate the fact that people live scared, cowering in front of their Gods, ashamed of sins and so on. I'm not blaming religious people as a whole, many, many of them are very intelligent and reasonable people but there are the ones who don't live their life to the fullest because of the illusion of Hell. To me death is the nothingness I was born of, maybe I will live on in memories, but my factual presence is not there. Death is indeed scary, that's why I hate people who live with their eyes closed.

Moral code exists without religions too and frankly monotheistic religions are about the same God, yet each religion argues with other religions that they have the "correct" religion.

EDIT: I'll just edit these things into this post

-If God is omnipotent, ruler of cosmos, creator of everything; why would he care about prayers? Why would human specifically be "his image", out of the billions and billions of star systems that might have inhabitants of their own?
-If there is a God; why do people assume God is good?
-Human nature isn't a constant, nearly everyone if not everyone has both good and evil side to them
-A lot of people are brought up as christians, even if they are only name christians - whatever they do does stamp the christianity in the statistics, so it's useless to claim christians being more "clean" compared to other religions or irreligions.

[funmonkey54]

Well, I am Christian, but I will come at this point from an outside perspective.

Personally, I believe that religions as a whole state that there is a definite right or wrong. The idea of a definite right or wrong means that not everything people do is ok. Which is against our nature. We want to be ok with what we are and everything we do and not be judged in any way, shape or form. The idea that something would judge us out of our control is unappealing to say the least.

So, obviously, the most simple way of avoiding this within our own minds is to completely deny its existence. Ideas such as "seeing is believing" and such make that easy in our minds to simply say nothing exists because we have not personally seen it. Although, there is hypocrisy in that seeing as how we believe in many things we are just told and have not yet seen. (Such as nearly everyone believes that there is a Taj Mahal and yet very few of us have actually seen it) But, at the same time, there is arguable hypocrisy within and standpoint we take. So, the easiest way out is to not take a stand and just ignore the existence of all of it.

[fullmetal_alchemist027]

The only reason I'll attack a religion is when you get those over-zealous bastards who push every aspect of their being on you, trying to force you to change because "You're following the wrong path."

I couldn't care less about what YOU believe in, so long as it doesn't interfere with MY persons.

I think it's a good thing that some people can draw their will to continue from something like religion. To the right person, it does them good. But a lot of us don't need this, nor do we want it. It seems like, more and more people will follow religions blindly, having absolutely no argument to support their beliefs other than "It's the right way" or "Insert opinion and use it as fact here."

One major issue that seems to plague me when I'm followed by said people, is my beliefs on hell and heaven and such. Just because I don't believe Jesus Christ is my savior, I'm apparently going to hell. This is just stupid. If I don't believe in what YOU believe, I guess I don't have the right to an afterlife (if it does exist). I guess the other few billion people who aren't [insert religion here] don't get to either.

TL;DR - Stop pushing your religion on people, learn to see the world with open eyes, and above all, stop being a freaking idiot about things. (not directed at any one person, incase it crossed someones mind.)

[Bolth mannn]

Originally Posted by fullmetal_alchemist027

The only reason I'll attack a religion is when you get those over-zealous bastards who push every aspect of their being on you, trying to force you to change because "You're following the wrong path."

I couldn't care less about what YOU believe in, so long as it doesn't interfere with MY persons.

I think it's a good thing that some people can draw their will to continue from something like religion. To the right person, it does them good. But a lot of us don't need this, nor do we want it. It seems like, more and more people will follow religions blindly, having absolutely no argument to support their beliefs other than "It's the right way" or "Insert opinion and use it as fact here."

One major issue that seems to plague me when I'm followed by said people, is my beliefs on hell and heaven and such. Just because I don't believe Jesus Christ is my savior, I'm apparently going to hell. This is just stupid. If I don't believe in what YOU believe, I guess I don't have the right to an afterlife (if it does exist). I guess the other few billion people who aren't [insert religion here] don't get to either.

TL;DR - Stop pushing your religion on people, learn to see the world with open eyes, and above all, stop being a freaking idiot about things. (not directed at any one person, incase it crossed someones mind.)

i agree with this.

I want to bring up something else. dont think im being a zealot or anything.

christianity teaches you to be on a good path, to have respect for your own life. for all I know the bible could be the biggest conspiracy in the world, but it sure helps the youth of the world understand themselves and have respect for their own wel-being. You never see proper christians involved in suicides, violent rampages, drunk bashing, or being on Ice or anything of the sort.

most people who don't believe in anything at all are lost and couldnt care less about their life, always wondering if theres anything more. christianity gives you that hope. it helps you believe that your on earth for a reason. god* might not be real, but it definately makes the earth a better place.


*I would like to mention here that im not eliminating every other religion by saying god, all religions give you some sort of purpose. i dont support some of the muslims or whoever they are that blow themselves up to get into 'heaven'

[-11-]

Personally i don't care if people think we were created by god or we come from monkeys as long as you don't try and persuade me that its fact beause it looks as though its all based on faith to me.

[Squeek]

Originally Posted by funmonkey54

Well, I am Christian, but I will come at this point from an outside perspective.

Personally, I believe that religions as a whole state that there is a definite right or wrong. The idea of a definite right or wrong means that not everything people do is ok. Which is against our nature. We want to be ok with what we are and everything we do and not be judged in any way, shape or form. The idea that something would judge us out of our control is unappealing to say the least.

So, obviously, the most simple way of avoiding this within our own minds is to completely deny its existence. Ideas such as "seeing is believing" and such make that easy in our minds to simply say nothing exists because we have not personally seen it. Although, there is hypocrisy in that seeing as how we believe in many things we are just told and have not yet seen. (Such as nearly everyone believes that there is a Taj Mahal and yet very few of us have actually seen it) But, at the same time, there is arguable hypocrisy within and standpoint we take. So, the easiest way out is to not take a stand and just ignore the existence of all of it.

No offense, but this is a horrible argument.

The expression you are using is completely misused. "You have to see it to believe it" is used when something goes against our natural beliefs. I don't deny that there's a palace in India. That's not hard to believe. There are lots of palaces in India. There are lots of palaces around the world. Why would it be difficult for me to believe it? Telling me that there's a being in the sky that governs what we do? That's difficult for me to believe.

To touch on what you were trying to argue, the reason I know the Taj Mahal exists is because we have multiple recorded sources of its existence. Its existence is a known fact. The only sources we have of any kind of "God" is based on unproven writings from thousands of years ago. None of these people saw this "God" fellow. They 'heard' him. Well, lots of people hear voices in their heads. They're called 'insane'. Why do you treat these people with much higher regard than the average schizo?

And to the OP, the last three posts are touching on why there's hostility toward Christians. Faith-based measures impede on society. You believe what you want to believe, but when push comes to shove, you stay out of our business. That's the deal we struck when we started this country, because we knew involving religion into government was a slippery slope.

[tofurox]

Actually, to be 100% honest. None of this has ever happened to me (and I'm Catholic). I mean, in reality Jews are made fun of WAY more.

"Oh... he's such a Jew!" "Look at his Jew fro!" "OMG can his noes even fit in his mouth?" "Do you have to wear one of those special caps?" "The Holocaust is a hoax!".... And even more prominant than that is racism, especially to Mexicans/Blacks.
From all my years living on this here planet we call Earth, I have yet to hear someone insult Christians outside of the internet. In fact, even on the internet it's a scarcity.

Actually, my friends are mostly Christian, and everyone else I see, will either never talk about religion, or if they do they'll say something good about Christians.

Well there are some people who tell you you're going to hell etc. But usually they have valid reason for their consensus. I can hardly think of any reason to bash us anyways.


And yo Chacha, maybe you hear about all this stuff on 4-Chan, but at our school this has never happened. Those 4-Chan bastards might say things like that, but in the real world.... And heck, my other friends haven't seen this either. And as for the internet, on my other forum sites this hasen't come yet either. But, if on the off chanc e it does happen to you, all you gotta do is prove them wrong. Like I said, there is no "legitimate" reason to hate us.

“Those who hate me without reason outnumber the hairs of my head; many are my enemies without cause, those who seek to destroy me”

I mean ok, you do hear people talking about gays, but it is usually Christians who disprove of them, or anyone who disproves of them. I can't say I've too many pro-gays at school or on the internet who use it as a way to bash Christians either.

[GuidoHunter]

Originally Posted by tofurox

Actually, to be 100% honest. None of this has ever happened to me (and I'm Catholic).

You didn't grow up in Waco. My family (as Catholics, even) got told we were going to hell for not being Christians.

Anyway, Y'all are doing pretty well to keep this on topic and reasonable, but this thread's topic is stacked against it, so do try especially hard when responding to stay on topic, lest the thread be locked.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

[Grandiagod]

Originally Posted by GuidoHunter

You didn't grow up in Waco. My family (as Catholics, even) got told we were going to hell for not being Christians.

Anyway, Y'all are doing pretty well to keep this on topic and reasonable, but this thread's topic is stacked against it, so do try especially hard when responding to stay on topic, lest the thread be locked.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

Don't tempt me.

Really.

Nothing would make me happier.

[Crashfan3]

Might as well give my two cents.

While I do believe that there is a higher power out there somewhere that can control our existence, I don't prefer to be labeled as a "Christian". I find most of the Christian practices as absurd and unnecessary.

And I'd like to bring this up: say there's this guy born in a dump in some third-world country. He goes about his life doing what little he can to survive. Grabbing food scraps and coins off of the streets, etc. He dies at the age of 21 from malnutrition. He never learned to read or write, he never learned about God, and he never accepted Christ. Does this mean that this man is by default condemned to the flames of Hell?

[Tired_Old_Man]

Christianity has led to thousands of people being tortured to death. I mean they used to burn people alive as slowly as they possibly could. I don't care that all these things were in the past. Christianity has proven itself to be pure evil and the fact that god didn't intervene in these atrocity's that were done in his name proves that he isn't even there.

[MinaciousGrace]

Aren't Christians the ones that zealously try to convert everyone to their faith without any care or understanding of the current beliefs of any given person of any given religion?

So according to them the world revolves around Christians and everyone else can go to hell (quite literally).

Sounds like an elitist schoolgirl clique attitude to me.

Maybe Christians should respect the beliefs of others before expecting others to respect their beliefs.

Hey wait that sounds familiar doesn't it.

Isn't it so painfully obvious now?

Originally Posted by Bolth mannn

most people who don't believe in anything at all are lost and couldnt care less about their life

k that makes sense.

Originally Posted by Bolth mannn

definately

too bad Christianity doesn't teach you how to spell

Originally Posted by Bolth mannn

makes the earth a better place.

tell that to the hundreds of millions of people who have, over the course of human history, been slaughtered over religious conflict.

[devonin]

Aren't Christians the ones that zealously try to convert everyone to their faith without any care or understanding of the current beliefs of any given person of any given religion?

Keep the incredibly sweeping generalizations out of the thread please.

The percentage of highly evangelical christians as compared to all christians is incredibly small. Trying to describe "all" christians by the actions of a vocal minority is akin to judgeing all Americans by the actions of the NRA, or all Irish by the actions of the IRA.

[dore]

Originally Posted by Crashfan3

And I'd like to bring this up: say there's this guy born in a dump in some third-world country. He goes about his life doing what little he can to survive. Grabbing food scraps and coins off of the streets, etc. He dies at the age of 21 from malnutrition. He never learned to read or write, he never learned about God, and he never accepted Christ. Does this mean that this man is by default condemned to the flames of Hell?

no

That's pretty straightforward out of the bible, look up questions like that on the internet because most of the questions like that that uninformed people make to try to trap the bible in its own logic are actually stated quite clearly in the bible, just no one bothers to look.

[MinaciousGrace]

hurrr call me out on generalizations but not bolth mannn k.

also it should have been understood that when I referred to Christians I was exclusively referring to proselytizing Christians because they're the ones who have most hatred directed at them, which is what the thread is about, which is what my post was about.

maybe it wasn't clear ?_?

ps. Any religious belief can be diluted and summarized to look equally as ludicrous

ie. once upon a time this dude created light by just talking about it, even in the vacuum of nothingness where his voice couldn't have been carried because he hadn't made anything else yet, then he made other stuff like planets, and people, and plants. We dunno how or why it happened but all we know is it did, and we talk to him all the time about our lives because we are sure he's paying attention.