Beta Engine: R^3 [Updated 6/5/14]

[YoshL]

idk i feel like it'd move ffr in a positive direction? because, like, well, all the points everyone are completely valid and such, but like, i guess my question would be "what would make ffr better". To any other user it's like "ooooh i can play this song faster wow I did so well on it what an accomplishment, oh wait it doesn't even record? why? the song was obviously harder cause it was faster". So, yeah you can cheat the walls with jumptrills, but at the point where you're trying to whore for AAAs, you're still going to be making those little tiny mistakes or getting BS goods from keyboards/finger twitches that you won't be able to avoid. I just don't see how it really affects the integrity of the player, or makes it any less fair to anyone because of how they're changing rates.

p.s. AJ just tried out skeletor on 1.3, he says wall is too fast lol

[justin_ator]

Originally Posted by HalfStep

No, when you put a custom judge your scores don't submit lol

Am I missing something? I don't even know what you guys are referring to ...?

[YoshL]

Originally Posted by justin_ator

Am I missing something? I don't even know what you guys are referring to ...?

not judge offset, but there's a new feature where you can input custom timing windows basically

[XXXsmittyXXX]

Haha sorry yeah that's what i meant. All these updates, getting a little confusing.

[justin_ator]

Originally Posted by YoshL

not judge offset, but there's a new feature where you can input custom timing windows basically

...where is that? lmao I'm so confused

[HalfStep]

Right click judge offset, it's a sekrit feature

[justin_ator]

Oh lmao wow, gotcha. Derp

[TC_Halogen]

Originally Posted by YoshL

p.s. AJ just tried out skeletor on 1.3, he says wall is too fast lol

1.3 is a bit too much for me to sustain because I'm not good at long-distance wrist-jacking, but 1.2 is more than manageable for me, haha

yeah, I think the disadvantages certainly outweigh the advantages when it comes to speeding up songs of high difficulty just to beat out rolls and whatnot. I'm still not in agreement with speeding up lower songs, but in retrospect, it's pretty stupid to not let it record because you're able to do the song at a much higher rate. I guess it's just my bias against having done them at normal rate in the past, haha.

[axith]

If songs played on higher rates record then the the top 10 daily grandtotal list would probably have be a more active battleground, since VS Boss Battle (or any song, really) on higher rates would increase the maximum possible score in an hour. Dendrite v2 would be an easier token to get, as would mashing your way to vrofl. Don't really know if this is negative, but it's a thought.

[YoshL]

Originally Posted by axith

If songs played on higher rates record then the the top 10 daily grandtotal list would probably have be a more active battleground, since VS Boss Battle (or any song, really) on higher rates would increase the maximum possible score in an hour. Dendrite v2 would be an easier token to get, as would mashing your way to vrofl. Don't really know if this is negative, but it's a thought.

was thinking about this, but again there's the fact that you /will/ be mashing even harder to accumulate the GT.

Like AJ posted, skeletor (he says it's 190 bpm, lets go with that), would become 250 bpm at a 1.3, which AJ says is gg nope for him.

And also take into consideration that was only one play.

Think of the effort and pain it took for people to grind things like EHHS or VS Boss Battle or something, and then make it even more draining. While, yeah, they'd technically get it 1.1x faster...

if you estimate half a day for 500k, so like, 8 hours maybe? (from wakeup), you'll get it 1.1x faster, that shaves 35 minutes of gameplay from that 500k. And that's at the cost of even more pain.

I think, alot of people are saying things about being able to cheat patterns, and all these cons, but they don't realize that rates actually really do affect playing and difficulty a whole ton

[RagedBerserker]

Good points made as a whole. I may be on a bias kick as well due to being old school.

[arcnmx]

Well I certainly have to disagree with the "challenge in boredom" point, I've been going through my levelranks recently and wouldn't wish it on anyone, it's already painfully boring and I'm only about 200 songs in. I don't understand why anyone would want to force players through a good 48 hours worth of grinding or whatever it amounts to, that really isn't a skill. If anything it's wasted time not spent on improving your actual skill at the game >.>

I was going to say that I understand why players might prefer a separate rate scoreboard instead (which comes with its own set of problems, how does one factor the rate into the score itself while still being fair?), and not let them touch the main levelranks... But now that I think about it I actually can't come up with a good reason not to besides "that's how it's always been." Eh, it's still probably not going to happen unless the community clamours hard for it though - I'd imagine it will be difficult changing the minds of many older players :P

</opinions>

Originally Posted by XXXsmittyXXX

Also, i'm getting kind of bad lag using flash10. When i turn off my volume on my speakers manually
and turn them back on, the lag disappears. What could that be coming from?

& accuracy calculations are boggling my mind. If you set a custom judge using the calculation, do scores record?
Wouldn't that make getting amazings way too easy?

Lag always sucks, newer flash versions just seem to be... bad for some reason. Are you sure it's the volume thing fixing it? Many have found that it just kind of randomly fixes itself after a song restart or two.

And nah, the judge windows don't record. They're just there for practice, or people who want to challenge themselves with smaller timing windows, etc.

[YoshL]

cmon i changed AJ's mind (i think) it's possible

Originally Posted by TC_Halogen

1.3 is a bit too much for me to sustain because I'm not good at long-distance wrist-jacking, but 1.2 is more than manageable for me, haha

yeah, I think the disadvantages certainly outweigh the advantages when it comes to speeding up songs of high difficulty just to beat out rolls and whatnot. I'm still not in agreement with speeding up lower songs, but in retrospect, it's pretty stupid to not let it record because you're able to do the song at a much higher rate. I guess it's just my bias against having done them at normal rate in the past, haha.

[HalfStep]

Waiting for Rob to post I guess

[~Zeta~]

I would go for average rank 1 in a month if rates on files (lets say below VC files) counted.

[YoshL]

Originally Posted by ~Zeta~

I would go for average rank 1 in a month if rates on files (lets say below VC files) counted.

stuff like this. Encouraging players to get back into the game is bad?
I don't see it personally

[HalfStep]

Making it a difficulty threshold instead of a minimum rate threshold could also be a solution to bsing patterns on higher rates.

[foxfire667]

Originally Posted by arcnmx

Eh, it's still probably not going to happen unless the community clamours hard for it though - I'd imagine it will be difficult changing the minds of many older players :P

Alright guys, let's all make a big noise about it and change the minds of the opposing community! Though majority rules probably really shouldn't influence something like this, unless legitimate reasons not sprung from bias or "because it's always been like that" are brought to the table (which really hammer terrible outcomes of adding 1.0+ rate scoring).

So far, some points brought up have been valid to raise, but giving them more thought seems to iron them out a bit.

- Though playing a song on a faster rate could potentially allow for certain patterns to be "cheated" easier than they are currently, it comes at the serious cost of trying to score well on the rest of the file. Considering that playing a difficult song on even 1.1/1.2x can vastly change the overall difficulty of the file (and even make those rolls too fast to hit) it evens out quite well. If someone AAA'd Skeletor on 1.3x, I think I would be happy to allow that to represent their 1.0 AAA.

- Forcing boredom as a game mechanic seems silly and discouraging for players actually trying to advance in the game.

- Mashing songs at a faster rate, as YoshL mentions, still means you are putting in the effort to hit the notes. Though it does raise the question of people exploiting it with special input sending keyboards or the usage or double setup, but that can be dealt with under the terms of rule breaking.

[TC_Halogen]

arc: for the sake of figuring out how to scale the windows, what would be the equivalent of default values?

[HalfStep]

Pretty sure default is supposed to be this
-116,5:-83,25:-50,50:-16,100:16,50:50,25:83,25:116,0