So my hometown made it into Yahoo News...

[eastsideman09]

For this shit
http://shine.yahoo.com/parenting/par...184517447.html

Everything about this pisses me off; The parents, the fact that they got the idea from a Christian counselor, and other people supporting the parents actions... But maybe I'm mad because I'm in psychology, and I've literally been taught to not do this to children.

What are your thoughts FFR?

[Plan_Bsk81127]

cool sign, I approve

[Reshiram]

That's pretty fucking stupid... then again, I supported the mom who photographed her crying children holding the toys of theirs that she tried to sell to pay off her bathtub damages. I dunno. There are certain ideas I can get behind, but this one just isn't one of them.

Also, that link to the father destroying his daughter's laptop on video: LMAO. Unrelated, but GODDAMN THAT WAS HILARIOUS TO SEE HOW SOME PEOPLE ARE...

[justin_ator]

Welcome to what I went through the last 3 years I lived at home...

[j-rodd123]

they just wanted to become famous

[funmonkey54]

My father, a Christian counselor, asked if their counselor is retarded or made up.

Probably both.

[Choofers]

the fact that a "christian counselor" exists is gross lmao

[Pseudo Enigma]

parental hammer misses its target yet again.

[DossarLX ODI]

Originally Posted by j-rodd123

they just wanted to become famous

Reminds me of this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kl1ujzRidmU

[dragonmegaXX]

I see nothing about this that will affect the child in the future. If something as simple as that will traumatize the child, you have a lot more problems to worry about.

Parents cant be pussies when raising children, otherwise the children end up running the household more than the adults. Parents already cant lay their hands on the child anymore, what kind of punishment you YOU suggest?
Time out?
How would you enforce it your child has no sense of you being an authority figure.

Everyone needs to stop crying over little things like this. There are a fucking thousand worse things the parents could have done to the child. Shes not malnourished, obviously she's intelligent, so stop acting like the parents are devils for trying to have a little discipline.

EDIT: I was a complete asshole to my mom as a tounger teenager. I threatened to call the police on her if she so much as touched me. A few years in the future, I dont think I should have been able to get her in trouble for trying to smack some sense into me.

[Reincarnate]

what the FUCK

the comments on that page are so absurdly stupid and uneducated, I don't even

[Reincarnate]

for the record:

publicly humiliating your child is a bad idea. all you do is traumatize the child and more often than not it fails to bring about the desired behavior (better achieved through things like positive reinforcement). Positive reinforcement takes a little more thought to pull off, which is why so many people suck at it. Punishment like this otherwise is akin to trying to fix a TV by just hitting it over and over and hoping the picture changes. There are better ways if you would put down the rod and open a goddamned psych textbook to see what the science/data has to say. I remember that spanking thread we had before on FFR and there were so many idiots arguing in favor... jeez.

Years from now, all that kid is going to remember is being humiliated. I think back to all the times my parents did shit like this and I have no recollection of what the punishments were for -- just that they happened and were largely unjustified. It has long-term psychological effects that are hard to shake off without some sort of cognitive behavioral therapy, and can severely damage your relationship with your parents (and others).

I don't know why so many fundamental Christian types obsess so much over shit like shame. Well, I do know, really -- it's easier to project your failures onto others instead of sacking up and taking responsibility for your shortcomings.

Originally Posted by MrPopadopalis25

Spankings and the like do little to correct negative behavior. Children usually learn how to avoid the punishment as opposed to not performing the activity that leads to the spanking in the first place. I'm going to assuming that public humiliation is the same way.

That's right -- all it tends to do is make the child try to figure out how to not get caught next time / makes them more defiant. Pets do this, too.

[dragonmegaXX]

Originally Posted by Reincarnate

for the record:

publicly humiliating your child is a bad idea. all you do is traumatize the child and more often than not it fails to bring about the desired behavior (better achieved through things like positive reinforcement). Positive reinforcement takes a little more thought to pull off, which is why so many people suck at it. Punishment like this otherwise is akin to trying to fix a TV by just hitting it over and over and hoping the picture changes. There are better ways if you would put down the rod and open a goddamned psych textbook to see what the science/data has to say. I remember that spanking thread we had before on FFR and there were so many idiots arguing in favor... jeez.

Years from now, all that kid is going to remember is being humiliated. I think back to all the times my parents did shit like this and I have no recollection of what the punishments were for -- just that they happened and were largely unjustified. It has long-term psychological effects that are hard to shake off without some sort of cognitive behavioral therapy, and can severely damage your relationship with your parents.

I don't know why so many fundamental Christian types obsess so much over shit like shame. Well, I do know, really -- it's easier to project your failures onto others instead of sacking up and taking responsibility for your shortcomings.




That's right -- all it tends to do is make the child try to figure out how to not get caught next time / makes them more defiant. Pets do this, too.

1. TV's aren't children and are unable to learn whether you bash them in with a baseball bat or not.

2. Why does it seem that most of the people my age who are deadweights on society seem to have complete free reign over their households? I dont see how positive reinforcement is supposed to help if your child does something completely stupid. That's like saying "Ok Johnny, I know you just vandalized out neighbors house, but if you dont do it again for 6 months, Ill buy you an Xbox".

3.I fail to see how you see disciplining a child as "Making up for your own shortcomings". People are rebellious by nature. Even if you raise your child perfectly, they're still going to do some stupid shit. That doesn't mean you shouldn't address the issues when they arise.

4. I feel like not getting punishments as a child probably weakens you as an adult. You end up as a spoiled young adult who thinks no one can get you in trouble. You end up getting a job, and are probably confused when the manager is threatening to fire you because you've never had someone threaten you before.

[DossarLX ODI]

Originally Posted by Reincarnate

it's easier to project your failures onto others instead of sacking up and taking responsibility for your shortcomings.

Originally Posted by News page

"We just felt like she just kind of gave up," Renee told the newspaper.

Originally Posted by News page

"We just got to the point where we just didn't know what else to do," Renee told the newspaper.

lol parents saying the daughter gave up when the parents gave up because they couldn't think of anything else

Also that "appeal to authority" bullshit is being used again here. The parents can't think for themselves and resort to the Bible for ideas (everyone's ideas come from secular means whether they want to admit it or not).

[eastsideman09]

Originally Posted by dragonmegaXX

Parents cant be pussies when raising children, otherwise the children end up running the household more than the adults. Parents already cant lay their hands on the child anymore, what kind of punishment you YOU suggest?

I would have sat my child down and asked her what the problem was. If she started acting differently, and her grades started to drop, I would want to figure out WHY these things are changing, as opposed to acting upon the change itself. The child isn't being engaged or learned anything from this particular situation, other than her parents are upset with her. She could be learning more appropriate ways of handling her frustrations (which is likely the problem, since she's in middle school and her uncle just died), but instead, she's being grounded and embarrassed. There's no indication in the article that anything is being explained to her, or that she's learning anything.

She said she was 'expecting' a punishment from her parents at the end of the article, and that's indicative of bigger problem to me... It's saying "I know I'm not doing the right thing, but this is the only way I know how to handle my situation". She can be helped, easily, but public embarrassment won't be what helps her.

Originally Posted by MrPopadopalis25

Spankings and the like do little to correct negative behavior. Children usually learn how to avoid the punishment as opposed to not performing the activity that leads to the spanking in the first place. I'm going to assuming that public humiliation is the same way.

You'd be assuming correctly.

Originally Posted by dragonmegaXX

1. TV's aren't children and are unable to learn whether you bash them in with a baseball bat or not.

2. Why does it seem that most of the people my age who are deadweights on society seem to have complete free reign over their households? I dont see how positive reinforcement is supposed to help if your child does something completely stupid. That's like saying "Ok Johnny, I know you just vandalized out neighbors house, but if you dont do it again for 6 months, Ill buy you an Xbox".

3.I fail to see how you see disciplining a child as "Making up for your own shortcomings". People are rebellious by nature. Even if you raise your child perfectly, they're still going to do some stupid shit. That doesn't mean you shouldn't address the issues when they arise.

4. I feel like not getting punishments as a child probably weakens you as an adult. You end up as a spoiled young adult who thinks no one can get you in trouble. You end up getting a job, and are probably confused when the manager is threatening to fire you because you've never had someone threaten you before.

Holy shit....

[Reincarnate]

Originally Posted by dragonmegaXX

1. TV's aren't children and are unable to learn whether you bash them in with a baseball bat or give them the latest toys to play with.

The whole point of the analogy is that punishment, on average, doesn't work. It's not the best method for changing behavior. You *can* fix a TV by hitting it, but if it actually works, you probably just got lucky. Most of the time you're just beating up your TV with no net benefit and causing residual damage.

Originally Posted by dragonmegaXX

2. Why does it seem that most of the people my age who are deadweights on society seem to have complete free reign over their households? I dont see how positive reinforcement is supposed to help if your child does something completely stupid. That's like saying "Ok Johnny, I know you just vandalized out neighbors house, but if you dont do it again for 6 months, Ill buy you an Xbox".

There are plenty of kids who have "free reign" and aren't shitheads. One doesn't necessarily cause the other and this is committing the fallacy known as "confirmation bias." You're only paying attention to one subset of scenarios and ignoring the ones that contradict your hypothesis.

The idea is that you teach your kid the right ropes so that vandalizing someone else's house doesn't even come up to begin with (if a kid is doing this, it probably wasn't taught properly for a long time prior to that event). Even so, it isn't the case that punishment is *never* justified. There are times when it's totally fine to punish your kid for doing something stupid. But the punishment has to be logical and consistent, and it must fit the crime. If you're just hitting your kids for "being noisy" or publicly shaming them for "being entitled" or whatever, you're not doing it right.

The biggest drawback of punishment is that it only tries to tell you what not to do instead of what you should be doing (reinforcement). Punishment works best when it's immediately coupled with the undesired stimulus and consistently applied (which is why it doesn't work when someone learns to sneak around it or if the punishment is so far removed from the incident. Examples: Jailtime, speeding tickets, etc). It also results in psychological damage/antisocial behavior/delinquency/aggression/etc.

Originally Posted by dragonmegaXX

3.I fail to see how you see disciplining a child as "Making up for your own shortcomings". People are rebellious by nature. Even if you raise your child perfectly, they're still going to do some stupid shit. That doesn't mean you shouldn't address the issues when they arise.

If rebellion is the concern, punishment generates more rebellion and defiance than the alternatives.

Originally Posted by dragonmegaXX

4. I feel like not getting punishments as a child probably weakens you as an adult. You end up as a spoiled young adult who thinks no one can get you in trouble. You end up getting a job, and are probably confused when the manager is threatening to fire you because you've never had someone threaten you before.

Not at all. Again, confirmation bias. Many well-adjusted adults weren't punished as kids like this, nor were they "self-entitled" or spoiled. You can learn to deal with conflict assertively instead of "responding to threats" in the context you're laying out.

[DossarLX ODI]

Going back to this quote

Originally Posted by News page

"We just got to the point where we just didn't know what else to do," Renee told the newspaper.

Nothing in the news page gives any hint of the parents discussing the daughter's issues. If anything, it shows that the parents "didn't know what else to do" and instead of wanting to think about the situation they just resorted to the uncreative, destructive public humiliation method. When something negative gets online, it spreads like a plague and pops up everywhere.

[dragonmegaXX]

For the record I actually didn't read the article. I've just seen similar situations is all, so these people might be going full retard for all I know.

[Reincarnate]

Originally Posted by dragonmegaXX

For the record I actually didn't read the article. I've just seen similar situations is all, so these people might be going full retard for all I know.

It's pretty much what you'd expect -- just public shaming that went viral

[Crashfan3]

What was it... about three.. four years ago when this shit started popping up on the internet?
Now I see this at least once a month. Some dickwad parent thinks its a good idea to publicly shame their teenager for bad grades, having sex, being disrespectful, or other things that normal teenagers do. I'm not saying it's right, and the children should be *privately* punished, but how would those parents feel if they had to hold up a sign at a busy intersection that explained all of their crimes in detail?

Short version: keep thy shit behind closed doors, 500k facebook likes isn't worth psychologically damaging your child.