Rob Ford

[Reincarnate]

Originally Posted by devonin

You have the right to complain about the system, sure. If you think the system is flawed, you have every right to say so. But it is the system we have. And while you can and should be making efforts to bring about changes in the system that you think will make the system better, to just patently ignore the entire system puts some of the blame for undesired outcomes of that system onto you.

The problem is that most people who don't vote, if they were MADE to vote, would rather vote at random or completely arbitrarily rather than educate themselves.

Canada routinely has perfectly reasonable candidates at every stage of electoral politics, regardless of your own political and social views. We have a multiple party system, with leaders that are voted on internally by their party, made up of people who actually identify with that party, so they tend to much better represent the beliefs of the party as a whole than in the US.

The way the Canadian electoral game gets "unrigged" is if the 40% of Canadians who didn't vote in the last federal election (More non-voters than voted for the WINNING party, which obtained only 39.78% of the popular vote) took any time at all to learn about the parties (We had 5 different parties earning seats in the House) and exercise their duty as citizens to vote.

I guess what I'm saying is that we can assign blame no matter what, if that is the case:

If you vote for someone whose administration causes damage (which would occur either way), you'd now be blameworthy for voting (as you may have heard many times -- "Don't complain, you voted for him. Twice!"). You can either be blamed for enabling the system, or blamed for standing by and doing nothing about it. Does participating in protest -- a spoiled ballot -- somehow absolve blame? You could argue that it doesn't, since it's not a practical way to bring about change. It's not much better than "praying" for a sick patient to get better. You might "feel better" for having done it, and you might be making a principled statement, and you might even be publicly showing your stance/sentiment, but in the end, nothing is being done about the actual problem.

I'm certainly not saying that one *shouldn't* vote with a spoiled ballot. If you're going to participate in a flawed system, that's the way to do it. But I disagree that participation (in a flawed system) is a necessary prerequisite for the right to complain about how events unfold or how the system operates.

A multi-party system is absolutely a great step forward. I hate that here in the US we only have two parties at the forefront. Pretty miserable stuff.

If the candidates under the Canadian system are actually there for the right reasons (and haven't forced their way into the process), and there aren't huge incentive problems intrinsic to the system, then I say more power to them -- and people should definitely participate.

[devonin]

The thing is that it's not (nor was it ever) about assigning or abrogating blame. It is about responsibility.

While you can say that telling people bad things are their fault for not voting, but then also their fault if they vote for a bad person is a bit of an equivocation. Just because both claims have the word 'fault' in them doesn't mean they are the same.

It's more a case of the idea that taking part in a process is what entitles you to having your views on that process heard.

The idea that single votes don't matter, so if you don't want a particular candidate to win you shouldn't vote at all is just absurd. I mean, case in point, that Canadian election where the winning party got fewer votes than the total number of people who didn't vote at all. If all of those people who didn't vote at all had gone in and filed formally spoilt ballots, "None of these" would have been the vote winner of the election. Not much sends the message of "This system is faulty" quite like electing NOTHING over any of the candidates.

The people who choose apathy more clearly send the message that they are fine with how things are going than even the people who just quietly vote for the lesser of two (or three or four) evils.

[Izzy]

I like the line right at the video.

"I love that guy."

[devonin]

Anyways, back to Rob Ford.

Fun fact from further in the past before he was international news:

Back in March, a former mayoral candidate Sarah Thomson alleged that at a fundraising party, Ford, while "Completely out of it" grabbed her ass, and suggested that she should have been in Florida with him the previous week because 'his wife wasn't there'"

He was so out of it that she suggested she thought he might have been on crack.

He denied all allegations.

[gold stinger]

Originally Posted by devonin

Anyways, back to Rob Ford.

Fun fact from further in the past before he was international news:

Back in March, a former mayoral candidate Sarah Thomson alleged that at a fundraising party, Ford, while "Completely out of it" grabbed her ass, and suggested that she should have been in Florida with him the previous week because 'his wife wasn't there'"

He was so out of it that she suggested she thought he might have been on crack.

He denied all allegations.

My mom remembers going to a couple of Rob Ford's parties up in etobicoke area 40 something years ago before he became mayor of Toronto. Dude was incredibly rich and liked to throw parties. He was also known to get extremely drunk & dumb during those parties too.

Then again my mom is literally crazy so it's up for you to believe that.

[Arkuski]

Originally Posted by gold stinger

My mom remembers going to a couple of Rob Ford's parties up in etobicoke area 40 something years ago before he became mayor of Toronto. Dude was incredibly rich and liked to throw parties. He was also known to get extremely drunk & dumb during those parties too.

Then again my mom is literally crazy so it's up for you to believe that.

Plot twist you're actually Rob Ford's son

[devonin]

I'm honestly AMAZED that nobody has tried to come forward with a claim like that in hopes of getting a nice cash settlement.

[Cavernio]

If it worked you wouldn't know about it.

[smartdude1212]

Until the video was released.

[choof]

Originally Posted by Arkuski

Plot twist you're actually Rob Ford's son

double plot twist
I have a picture of rob ford with his son at a b-day party in 1995

[Arntonach]

This doesn't seem like the kind of person that should hold office. Is he some sort of savant or is his popularity really that strong of a force?

[Dynam0]

Just pulling from my own knowledge which isn't always 100% on the money, but Rob and his older brother Doug (city council member), come from a family with a rich background in business and used this as a platform to gain popularity in a metropolitan city which had seen huge stunts in growth at the time due to things like the SARS outbreak which severely reduced tourism and an economic recession.

The leading competition for the 2010 mayoral race was George Smitherman; the provinces first openly gay cabinet minister. Ford won by ~100,000 votes or something and I can remember when he was elected, I thought he and his brother seemed sketchy and untrustworthy.

He was stripped of some of his mayoral rights today by members of council who passed a motion to have his budget reduced by a fair amount and the deputy mayor to share responsibilities...an unprecedented event as far as Canadian politics goes. Both of the Fords are furious and insist that "this is just the beginning of a nasty political war, watch out". Rob Ford even went so far as to compare what council did today to Saddam Hussein bombing Kuwait...unreal.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Cyammx-5sY

This is the kind of antics he pulled today during the debates:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dgih7fW5YYQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QB1dJeMtb08

[Hateandhatred]

Originally Posted by Dynam0

He was stripped of some of his mayoral rights today by members of council who passed a motion to have his budget reduced by a fair amount and the deputy mayor to share responsibilities...an unprecedented event as far as Canadian politics goes. Both of the Fords are furious and insist that "this is just the beginning of a nasty political war, watch out". Rob Ford even went so far as to compare what council did today to Saddam Hussein bombing Kuwait...unreal.

Understatement detected.

Anyway, this is definitely unreal. I can't believe the guy didn't step down at the first instant, let alone boldly warn everyone there would be more to come. And to think this guy still has around 40% support from the city.

Hopefully his future as a mayor will be to be the national clown until the next election where he will fall (I wouldn't believe people behind him to stick behing his flag, otherwise Toronto you have problems) or resign/be kicked out before that point. This is making Vaillancourt sounds like a good mayor, and that's really bad.

[L.B.D.D]

kanadA

[gold stinger]

please save me from a terrible mayor.

[Cavernio]

kanaada kohnt

[Tim Allen]

Originally Posted by Dynam0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QB1dJeMtb08

lol this guy i wanna make sure everyone sees this cuz woozah

[Arkuski]

Wait r u tim allen or tom hanks

[smartdude1212]

[Bluearrowll]

http://www.thestar.com/news/city_hal...oll_finds.html

Looks like Toronto really is The Big Smoke.