FFR 6th Official Tourney Songs Discussion: Round 4

[bmah]

Originally Posted by TheSaxRunner05

imo wiinter storm has a retarded difficulty spike in the last 15 seconds lol, doesn't feel consistent with the rest of the file

Edit:// Just noticed Bmah was the last poster =) No offense, just my 2 cents

Well the point of this thread is to post your thoughts on the tourney files. What else did you expect?

And regarding what you said, I just step according to the music. All you need to do is listen to the mp3 to realize that the ending is obviously going to be a conglomerate of 24th arrows. Consistency is one thing, but is one going to ignore stepping something that obvious? I step to how the song sounds, and a degree of inconsistency is to be expected. Of course, one can deliberately remove the steps to particular sounds/instruments, but in this case, the 24ths you're playing is the main focus in the last part of the song...nothing else to step to make it easier.

Originally Posted by magicturbo

I noticed you and Subin tend to occasionally be especially helpful. Which songs are early techno songs? =S... I lack knowledge of the songs...

I can't really point to an exact song; I think Mike Weedmark has some good examples, but try Battle Ax (it's a token song iirc). That song is a bit more 16th streamy, but the middle of the song does focus on short 16th streams broken by jumps at a relatively brisk BPM. Playdoh is similar, but the 16th patterns are more commonly mini-trills.

[the1]

Wiinter dream at least sounds pleasant, I wouldn't want to have to whore D4s song just because that would make my ears sad no offense to anyone

[Kirbyman1990]

I dunno if this helps anyone, but for the people in my division (D1), try playing through DotA with offset -1 to get the basics of the rhythm for Jumper, then maybe move on to Haruka and Keep it Short once you get it down. It helped me, at least.

[who_cares973]

Originally Posted by yo man im awesome

See this is the part of a civil argument I like, when other people also contribute their opinions, whether it helps me or not.

I see many of your points to be true, but I also find AJ's point valid as well.

As for your statement of if you were to judge a file and 75% wouldn't enter, well, that's why we have multiple judges (and another thing, I think we should have at least one judge from every skill group that's at least minorly trusted, so we see the file from all angles of the community), that way no one person has near complete control over what goes in and what doesn't go into ffr.

i already replied to aj's point so i wont go there. with the current judging system any reject from a single judge would completely ruin the chances of a file getting in. this is going to change soon though. the problem with having one judge from every skill level(which ive suggested before but i hadnt really thought it through then) is that there arent many people qualified to judge that would meet the skill level requirements. even now there are judges on the panel who tend to put their feeling about the file before most everything else. most of the judges on the panel though are able to cover all angles so i think we're good there

Originally Posted by Mike Weedmark

You say this, like you understand that it's all subjective, but then you say this, like you think there are still universals that need to be followed to make a file fun. It's true that everyone's going to have their own opinion on a given file, but I disagree that finding out why one person likes one file won't help you develop some organized theory too. I'm human, there are going to be some things almost every human has in common that determine what they love or hate about a file. I adore WAIWAI's chart, and I find it strange that you don't think figuring out why might be helpful.

i dont see how knowing what makes a file fun has to do with difficulties. but for the second thing i already mentioned what makes a file fun: technicality, fluidity and music relevance. this is the basis of every file and what people use to rate the fun-ness of a file though people that dont have any knowledge of stepping wouldnt refer to those terms when talking about why they like a file.

some reasons why you would like waiwai

the file flows amazingly well and has no abrupt changes in the way the file is stepped. the difficulty remains almost consistent the entire time and its easy to distinguish what the file is stepped. the sync is fine so you are questioning if you're hitting the notes on time. having it flow as well as it does also means that you can actually pay attention to the song without having to really concentrate on the file to score well on it. the jack usage is also well done because it doesnt affect the flow of the file much and it keeps you from getting too bored with the file by increasing the difficulty of the file a bit. the usage of bpm changes also makes for great eye candy. it makes it easy to distinguish the parts that require more attention from the parts that require next to none.

also my theory on files is pretty well organized and hasnt failed me yet. i dont receive many complaints on my newer files so i must be doing something right

[hi19hi19]

Originally Posted by who_cares973

also my theory on files is pretty well organized and hasnt failed me yet. i dont receive many complaints on my newer files so i must be doing something right

This a million times.
If you have a solid understanding, the judges and the community will react to your files the way you expect them to basically every time. It's been this way with my past files- nearly every rating I've gotten over the last few batches has been about what I expected, which is honestly better than shooting in the dark and getting lucky. (even the files that got rejected, I submitted knowing there was a good chance they might. You have to know your boundaries before you can try to push them a little RAVE7 :P)

If people are liking files you don't think well be well-received, or worse yet disliking the files you think are surefire successes, it's time to re-evaluate your understanding of whatever it is you're doing wrong.


I have to say, out of all the people who can be talking about "simfile theory" I would almost always agree with wc. Listen to the guy, he kinda knows what he's talking about
2c

[the1]

Originally Posted by who_cares973

but for the second thing i already mentioned what makes a file fun: technicality, fluidity and music relevance.

I'm not going to lie, all my fav charts are heavy in these 3 things.

[bmah]

Originally Posted by hi19hi19

shooting in the dark and getting lucky. (even the files that got rejected, I submitted knowing there was a good chance they might. You have to know your boundaries before you can try to push them a little RAVE7 :P)

If it hasn't been obvious now, I like to experiment with different things, so I take my chances in hoping that a certain song or stepping style can be featured and appreciated. Applies to both my files for FFR and Stepmania packs. Boredom is the last thing FFR needs.
I know you like to experiment too sometimes. It's risky of course, but who cares.

[who_cares973]

Originally Posted by bmah

I know you like to experiment too sometimes. It's risky of course, but who cares.

what about me?

also experimenting has led me to some awesome stuff such as ACA :3

[bmah]

It's just a response to hi19's "if people don't like your steps, re-evaluate what you're doing". But in all honesty, I put priority over stepping to my satisfaction first - it's just what GD said earlier. And sometimes that involves experimenting, which won't always be a success (better examples are some of my SM files in packs).

SAMBISTA for instance presents a rare opportunity to try out a song with frequent short 48th bursts. You don't see that a lot. I like to give people something different to work on. Great if you like it, too bad if you don't.

[Choofers]

experimenting made My Half v2

I should probably experiment a lot more often

[CammyGoesRawr]

Step 1: AAA Every part section by section
Step 2: Erase mindblock and play in quiet environment
Step 3: Motivation from friends that don't know shit about FFR
Step 4:

[DossarLX ODI]

Originally Posted by bmah

If it hasn't been obvious now, I like to experiment with different things, so I take my chances in hoping that a certain song or stepping style can be featured and appreciated. Applies to both my files for FFR and Stepmania packs. Boredom is the last thing FFR needs.
I know you like to experiment too sometimes. It's risky of course, but who cares.

Metro has been my biggest experiment yet (it's also the hardest file I've stepped that's been put into the game so far) - it received a lot of heat and received hilarious ratings but I thought it would be nice to have a nice BPM streaming file that wasn't overdone (300 bpm on the dot was one of the main reasons why I stepped it)

But then Abyssal didn't get received too well :monkey:

kjwkjw - "dossar: the most controversial stepartist of our time"

[hi19hi19]

Originally Posted by bmah

It's just a response to hi19's "if people don't like your steps, re-evaluate what you're doing"

Hey, careful now that's not what I said, don't misquote me!

I said if people are reacting differently than you are expecting, then you need to re-evaluate.
If you make a file that pushes boundaries and expect there to be some people who don't like it, and that's what turns out to happen, then fine. I've done that and then just screw the haters. HOWEVER if you are making charts you think the community might not like, and then they do, figure out why! Don't just shrug it off as "oh strange, guess I got lucky" because there's something to be learned there!

And of course the opposite too, if you make a file you think everyone will really like then they don't, but it's a little more common to focus on those and learn from them than the reverse.


EDIT-
I might as well give a personal example... Ninja Turtles Theme.
I stepped this almost kinda as a joke and wasn't happy at all with the chart, but it turned out that a lot of people wound up finding it fun. It even made it on the new Tier Point list, which I guess speaks for its relative popularity among 7s in this game.
So I went back a while ago and tried to dissect why people liked the file even though I didn't. I'd say that I am not happy with the repeating stream because it's actually incorrect PR based on the sound... but it on the other hand it flows well so I see why people enjoy it even though it's not as technically correct. I'm not fond of the gallops and the ending, because they are supposed to be minijacks, but then I can see how they flow well despite not being the way I want them. From this I learned I should not focus so much on making all jack sounds jacks (even though in my heart of hearts I want to) and I've been really trying to apply that to my recent non-dumpy files.
Looking at unexpected successes like that can sometimes reveal bad habits you have in your more regular files.

[bmah]

Fair enough. Part of the reason I step is to get a reaction from the community. I don't take blind shots except when I'm being really experimental.

[I still can't figure out why Necropotence is much-loved though]

[DossarLX ODI]

Originally Posted by bmah

[I still can't figure out why Necropotence is much-loved though]

zebdal's Necropotence is god awful. That's the only stepmania file I know of for that song, and it's a bunch of vibrating anchors

[hi19hi19]

Originally Posted by DossarLX ODI

zebdal's Necropotence is god awful. That's the only stepmania file I know of for that song, and it's a bunch of vibrating anchors

Pretty sure he's talking about his file for Necropotence, you know the one in FFR...

Maybe you don't remember because you probably sightread AAA it then forgot its even in the game lul

[DossarLX ODI]

No, I was saying that bmah's FFR file probably is liked because it is pretty reasonably stepped, and how other people don't know any other files for that song besides zebdal's stepmania file.

When you compare the FFR file to that stepmania file, the FFR one is flawless and the stepmania one is like the YAHHHH CTRL+R YAHHHH on my engine.

[hi19hi19]

Originally Posted by DossarLX ODI

No, I was saying that bmah's FFR file probably is liked because it is pretty reasonably stepped, and how other people don't know any other files for that song besides zebdal's stepmania file.

When you compare the FFR file to that stepmania file, the FFR one is flawless and the stepmania one is like the YAHHHH CTRL+R YAHHHH on my engine.

Oh, now I get it.

I can't be the only one who was confused about your comment tho :P

[who_cares973]

Originally Posted by DossarLX ODI

Metro has been my biggest experiment yet (it's also the hardest file I've stepped that's been put into the game so far) - it received a lot of heat and received hilarious ratings but I thought it would be nice to have a nice BPM streaming file that wasn't overdone (300 bpm on the dot was one of the main reasons why I stepped it)

But then Abyssal didn't get received too well :monkey:

kjwkjw - "dossar: the most controversial stepartist of our time"

dont think so highly of yourself metro wasnt that big of a deal because of the file but because of the song.

Originally Posted by bmah

It's just a response to hi19's "if people don't like your steps, re-evaluate what you're doing"

the what about me was more of a joke to you ending your post with "but who cares" >_>

[bmah]

I know. wasn't referring to that