On the Removal of Crowdpleaser from Level Ranks

[___________]

Originally Posted by Hakulyte

The question is why the historic value of these files is higher than the judging value from getting them in-game. It's creating unnecessary ambiguity and goes against the idea of getting quality files in-game. It's just a huge slap in the simfiles judge team. It's not only CP but also Revo, RATO, For FFR, SoSSG etc. etc. There's a reason why they don't accept 500 bpm 16th jacks or 800 bpm 16th one hand trills or completely off-sync songs. There's conditions that need to be met and these files are clearly not meeting them.

This, I dislike the inconsistencies of this game as a whole. One minute we're trying to attract new players, and then the next we want to preserve the ~history~ of FFR by keeping these shitty files in. No one wants to play these legacy files, no one wants these files rotting in their levelranks. Just put CP and the rest of the offsync Synthlight files in an alternate engine and remove them from FFR.

[One Winged Angel]

was immediately reminded of this after skimming thread

Opkiller is O'Leary :revealed:
babe ily bro

For the record, swapping v1 in public ranks with the v2 in tokens is something I've advocated for quite a while, as well as v1 and v2 of Revo.

[noname219]

O'Leary was born in Quebec btw. :O

[I like it]

no keep it public

[xXOpkillerXx]

But Rob I'm not part of the wealthy 1% I can't vibrate for shit :3

@Doss, yeah I tend to argue on stuff that doesnt seem well thought, and often get out of the original topic. Notice I was against keeping CP in lvlranks but it changed to "is vibrating a developable skill" lol.

[kmay]

Originally Posted by xXOpkillerXx

Dude your logic makes 0 sense: "Problem: file makes no sense. Solution: Learn to play nonsense stuff." I bet you'd say Whimper Wall was a nice/fun file to combo on lmao.

PS: go step a legit vibrating file and Then use all the pro-CP arguments, that might work. But don't simply defend a dumb file like CP thx

argument is valid. look at the level ranks for it. almost 300 FC's. the top 100 have some pretty good scores on it. seems like you guys on here just like complaining. i can't jack to save my life but i'm not here trying to get Club out of the ranks. i just need to practice more. I can assure you everyone in here posting can get a SDG non-FC on this file. its very easy. there just happens to be a few tough sections.

just overlay and you will get a nice looking score. suck it up. it wont take long. i mean i'm all for moving it. like i said it will probably drop me down a division in tournaments when i do play, but don't act like the file is really the end of the world.


and my argument doesn't work for vROFL because the entire file is like that. only what, like 2 seconds, of CP is vibrating. or two hand trilling. you will be fine.

[xXOpkillerXx]

Originally Posted by kmay

argument is valid. look at the level ranks for it. almost 300 FC's. the top 100 have some pretty good scores on it. seems like you guys on here just like complaining. i can't jack to save my life but i'm not here trying to get Club out of the ranks. i just need to practice more. I can assure you everyone in here posting can get a SDG non-FC on this file. its very easy. there just happens to be a few tough sections.

just overlay and you will get a nice looking score. suck it up. it wont take long. i mean i'm all for moving it. like i said it will probably drop me down a division in tournaments when i do play, but don't act like the file is really the end of the world.


and my argument doesn't work for vROFL because the entire file is like that. only what, like 2 seconds, of CP is vibrating. or two hand trilling. you will be fine.

Club is a legit good file, no matter how good/bad you are at it. CP notes make no sense.

You're saying files that would Require double setup are acceptable files in this game. That's your opinion, can't deny it, but I'm personally against that.

Acting like it's the end of the world... Srsly man ? We're trying to improve this game come on.

Your point looks like this: "I'm for removing CP from lvlranks (PS: ppl want it removed cuz it's a bad file and not reprensentative), but don't complain about how bad the file is."

[omega_grunt666]

Originally Posted by kmay

argument is valid. look at the level ranks for it. almost 300 FC's. the top 100 have some pretty good scores on it. seems like you guys on here just like complaining. i can't jack to save my life but i'm not here trying to get Club out of the ranks. i just need to practice more. I can assure you everyone in here posting can get a SDG non-FC on this file. its very easy. there just happens to be a few tough sections.

just overlay and you will get a nice looking score. suck it up. it wont take long. i mean i'm all for moving it. like i said it will probably drop me down a division in tournaments when i do play, but don't act like the file is really the end of the world.


and my argument doesn't work for vROFL because the entire file is like that. only what, like 2 seconds, of CP is vibrating. or two hand trilling. you will be fine.

99% of which are double/overlay setups which is basically cheating. And I wouldn't call a 94 pattern in a 69 or less file a "tough section", its just bad and gimmicky. The leader board isn't about skill at that point ,its who has two keyboards or some macro keys/anti-ghosting and a little patience. By your logic P4U should also be public ranks because you could memorize the zero framers, might as well throw in token whore and wises were wrong too.

The precedent has been set that we don't leave/add these kind of files to the public ranks. Its not unreasonable to want to leave it in the game because of its history, but what would be wrong with making a v2 and moving this to a token?

[emulord]

People are saying "What about consistency?"
I think that crowdpleaser should remain BECAUSE consistency = sameness = boring files.

Seriously, we should have more index / one handed aimed charts and gimmicky things. I agree that background videos should be tokens because they can cause lag for some players which is a unfair difference.

Isnt Nova Pulser gimmicky with those minijacks? Isnt pants gimmicky in a way with miles of jumpstream? What about color gimmicks like Counting Snow? We should celebrate diversity and a barely-possible trill in a otherwise Challenging/VC file is fun.

Btw, I tried doing a double setup/overlay, but I ended up just doing the trill for real after mashing every other song in the game. I hit VERY early for averages and got late goods on the last arrow. AAAing is out of the question for me, but I could probably get a 15-25 good FC on the file if I tried many many times.

[omega_grunt666]

Consistency doesn't mean boring files, there are tons of challenging (for non-standard reasons) files in the game, is Club boring? Turbo? M.A.M.A? crowdpleaser isn't special except for the fact it contains a pattern that is easily cheated and un-proportionately hard to do compared to the rest of the song.

We're talking about a pattern that keeps this file's AAA's in a similar number to Heterochromia Iridis, Husigi Usagi Milk Tei, and Winter Wind Etude. ENTIRE SONGS that are similar difficulty to TWO SECONDS of this file. Single/short patterns are generally easier to learn and overcome, thats why you have songs line Lolo and grind2 labelled at a lower difficulty even though their average speeds/patterns are faster then similarly rated songs. But the nature of this pattern makes it very hard if not impossible just about everyone to learn, but at the same time is incredibly easy to cheat by using a non-standard layout.

Nova pulser, pants, and counting snow don't require a special setup, it isn't a gimmick in a bad sense like CP. You can't easily cheat those files in a way that devalues the difficulty of learning them properly.

*edit*

@kmay, and I consider the people who use two feet standing on the corners of the pads and vibrating cheating, but its still within the rules of the game. BUT:

Read the rules!
http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/....php?f=14&a=52

FFR The Game Rules:
Play FFR any way you'd like, but make sure that you don't cheat. Cheating isn't the kind of thing that just accidentally happens. Cheating also isn't tolerated. If you are caught trying to cheat in any way, you may be permanently banned from the site. Additionally, all of your scores may be removed.

Examples of cheating include but are not limited to:
- Using a bot;
- Exploiting glitches;
- Having someone else play for you on your account;
- Using a double setup. (Using more than one key input at once per arrow.)

The file promotes a style of play that is cheating within the rules of the game, the effort involved in legitimately completing the pattern in an accurate manner is simply not worth it for the quality of the file. Its bad stepping plain and simple, not simply a file that is "too hard".

That being said, it has a place in FFR history and would make a fine token.

[kmay]

There is no denying its gimmicky. And I considered spread cheating while I played index. The game is DDR. Which is played with two feet. Two fingers two feet. That's like playing with ddr with two people. Semantics.


So CP may be gimmicky but it is not MISREPRESENTING the game in anyway. It showcases a unique talent and if you can hit those patterns you should be recognized for that. I dont think new players will be looking to play a level 94 song anyway.

[xXOpkillerXx]

Originally Posted by xXOpkillerXx

PS: go step a legit vibrating file and Then use all the pro-CP arguments, that might work. But don't simply defend a dumb file like CP thx

@kmay

[Fantasticone]

Trill hurts my neck everytime, remove.

[AlexDest]

Just move it to token level ranks, I don't see the big deal.

[ilikexd]

Originally Posted by emulord

People are saying "What about consistency?"
I think that crowdpleaser should remain BECAUSE consistency = sameness = boring files.

Seriously, we should have more index / one handed aimed charts and gimmicky things. I agree that background videos should be tokens because they can cause lag for some players which is a unfair difference.

Isnt Nova Pulser gimmicky with those minijacks? Isnt pants gimmicky in a way with miles of jumpstream? What about color gimmicks like Counting Snow? We should celebrate diversity and a barely-possible trill in a otherwise Challenging/VC file is fun.

apples and oranges...

counting snow is a really cool idea to have white notes as if they are snowflakes
pants, although pretty unsound by today's charting standards, makes sense and is totally doable by a myriad of players
nova pulser... like 180 bpm or so minijacks

literally NOTHING like a 480 bpm trill that doesn't represent a sound right

i don't think you understand what consistency means... people aren't talking about charts, they're talking about the ability to vibrate consistently, which doesn't physically exist as explained by many others in this thread


@question in op, swapping cp and revo for their respective v2s sounds like a great idea since they both do a much better job representing the song, are both much more in the realm of playability (no impossible trill, no disgustingly distracting background and nonsense anchors and pretty much arrows going to nothing and wrong bpm the whole time)

[xXOpkillerXx]

Originally Posted by AlexDest

Just move it to token level ranks, I don't see the big deal.

The deal is some people don't want that to happen.

[xVaLoRx]

but the majority of players do want it to happen according to the votes

[xXOpkillerXx]

Originally Posted by xVaLoRx

but the majority of players do want it to happen according to the votes

Yes, but it's always good to argue and see what arguments are brought, sometimes one will say something you never thought of and you might agree.

[Hakulyte]

At one point in time, simfile artists made a few batches of files with hands in them because the vast majority of players adapted to playing spread. If somehow we manage to have a large group of players being able to vibrate and get somewhere with this, it's possible that on long term the game evolves into raw scoring + vibrating files. So, try again with this thread once raw scoring gets implemented and people aren't afraid to lose FC on something they can't do physically.

[SK8R43]

Originally Posted by xVaLoRx

but the majority of players do want it to happen according to the votes

9 people is a majority?


Dont really care what happens to the file though. not like anyone cares what i think anyways.