Beta Engine: R^3 [Updated 6/5/14]

[Velocity]

judgeSettings = [
{t:-118, s:5, f:-3},
{t:-84, s:25, f:-2},
{t:-50, s:50, f:-1},
{t:-17, s:100, f:0},
{t:17, s:50, f:1},
{t:50, s:25, f:2},
{t:84, s:25, f:3}
];

-118:5,-84:25,-50:50,-17:100,17:50,50:25,84:25

[HalfStep]

Was a few ms off, my bad ^^

[arcnmx]

Originally Posted by YoshL

cmon i changed AJ's mind (i think) it's possible

Heh, true enough! Maybe it'll be easier than I thought.

Originally Posted by HalfStep

Making it a difficulty threshold instead of a minimum rate threshold could also be a solution to bsing patterns on higher rates.

Eh, making a special case by difficulty is using it for the single purpose of grinding through levelranks faster... If you concede that rates mean you can bs patterns and shouldn't be allowed for the "hard" songs then this is just saying we don't care what happens to the easier leaderboards. It also obviously doesn't address the complaints that rates don't count against GTS, PA/bestscores, etc.

Originally Posted by foxfire667

Alright guys, let's all make a big noise about it and change the minds of the opposing community! Though majority rules probably really shouldn't influence something like this, unless legitimate reasons not sprung from bias or "because it's always been like that" are brought to the table (which really hammer terrible outcomes of adding 1.0+ rate scoring).

So far, some points brought up have been valid to raise, but giving them more thought seems to iron them out a bit.

- Though playing a song on a faster rate could potentially allow for certain patterns to be "cheated" easier than they are currently, it comes at the serious cost of trying to score well on the rest of the file. Considering that playing a difficult song on even 1.1/1.2x can vastly change the overall difficulty of the file (and even make those rolls too fast to hit) it evens out quite well. If someone AAA'd Skeletor on 1.3x, I think I would be happy to allow that to represent their 1.0 AAA.

- Forcing boredom as a game mechanic seems silly and discouraging for players actually trying to advance in the game.

- Mashing songs at a faster rate, as YoshL mentions, still means you are putting in the effort to hit the notes. Though it does raise the question of people exploiting it with special input sending keyboards or the usage or double setup, but that can be dealt with under the terms of rule breaking.

I suppose it's less about majority rules and more about convincing the people who have a say... Admins? Game Managers? Iunno. It has my support though :P

As for using rates for mashing... Yes, you can make marginal gains by rate'ing VS Boss Battle, I don't believe that's a huge problem though. Cheating with double setups and such seems like a nonissue, it's not like FFR doesn't already have fast mashable songs such as RATO anyway.

Originally Posted by HalfStep

Was a few ms off, my bad ^^

Yeah, just some rounding issues (also the windows technically start one ms after the value given). Looking at it again the defaults should perhaps be changed to be more like... -118, -84, -49, -18, 17, 50, 83
Generally it's calculated by {-3.5,-2.5,-1.5,-0.5,0.5,etc.}*1000/30

[qqwref]

I'd like to point out something subtle about rate modding... remember how files are stored, not with accurate millisecond timings or whatever, but with timings in frames?

Suppose you have a ~180 bpm roll, which will have a whole bunch of 2-frame intervals. Now let's speed it up to ~225 bpm (so 1.25 rate), where theoretically it wouldn't have any 2-frame intervals. The problem is that the file was already converted at 180 bpm, and now instead of having each note in the roll at a nice 1-note interval, you will have something like this:
- 1-frame intervals in the original song convert to 0.80 frames, which means a 20% chance of 0 frame and a 80% change of 1 frame
- 2-frame intervals in the original song convert to 1.60 frames, which means a 40% chance of 1 frame and a 60% chance of 2 frame
See what I mean here? Every 2-frame interval in the original roll has a 60% chance of still being a 2-frame interval. Even at 1.5 rate, 2-frame intervals have a 33.3% chance of staying that way. So speeding up the file actually will not make the roll that much better; it might end up easily cheatable, but it might just end up with really awkward and uneven frame intervals. And of course the entire file will be faster anyway. I think if you can easily PA Skeletor at 1.2 or 1.3 rate you can probably get much better AAAs anyway, which means that even if you do get that AAA it won't be an unfairly good score for you.


I think I would support allowing ratemodded scores to record, as long as the rate is high enough. I think a minimum of something like 1.2 rate would be okay. Anything too close to 1.0 just gives people the opportunity to randomly move notes around, and obviously anything below 1 is off limits.

edit: and maybe we should force rates to be multiples of something like .05 or .1 for score recording purposes, since otherwise we might get people trying a whole bunch of random rates (e.g. 1.204, 1.206, 1.208) just to try to slightly mess with the frame patterns.

[arcnmx]

Right, I meant to touch on that in my last post but was sidetracked. Agreed, but I was going to suggest a minimum of 1.1

[TC_Halogen]

Originally Posted by qqwref

edit: and maybe we should force rates to be multiples of something like .05 or .1 for score recording purposes, since otherwise we might get people trying a whole bunch of random rates (e.g. 1.204, 1.206, 1.208) just to try to slightly mess with the frame patterns.

Very good catch/idea.

[PriestREA]

I don't know if I've missed a memo or something, but I seem to always have to set my global offset to "3" before the notes are synced up with the song. At home I can play with a judge offset at 0, but at school I always need a judge of 1. As a result, I am substantially less accurate on R^3 than any other engine. I must have not read all the tips properly, because everyone else seems to have no problems.

I have tried it on Flash 9, 10, 11 and in-browser, cleared cache etc.

[arcnmx]

Use the right-click-on-speedmod-line-on-results-screen sekrit to see what the game thinks your judge offset should be. Different setups/computers/etc. can feel different, and with the fps changes that can become more obvious and pronounced. Even on the same computer fps mode vs 30fps mode can feel different and need specific offsets.

Also flash on my Linux system is bugged and needs a global offset of 6 or 7 for audio sync, no idea if that applies to other systems too.

tl;dr offsets until it feels comfortable.

[PriestREA]

Originally Posted by arcnmx

Use the right-click-on-speedmod-line-on-results-screen sekrit to see what the game thinks your judge offset should be. Different setups/computers/etc. can feel different, and with the fps changes that can become more obvious and pronounced. Even on the same computer fps mode vs 30fps mode can feel different and need specific offsets.

Also flash on my Linux system is bugged and needs a global offset of 6 or 7 for audio sync, no idea if that applies to other systems too.

tl;dr offsets until it feels comfortable.

For me on both Mac and Win 8 I need a global offset of 3.
I will try the offset secret momentarily.

[Garquillex]

there should be a tournament to see who can AAA Excite Bike on the highest rate

[Doug31]

I can't even seem to play autumn with the framerate on 120 and the speed on 2.5. I don't know what's wrong and it works on other songs. The notes just fly across the screen way too fast.

[SC_coolguy44]

Originally Posted by Garquillex

there should be a tournament to see who can AAA Excite Bike on the highest rate

There was already a little contest for credits hosted by 21992 that did AAA rates (I think 5x rate was the fastest he wanted people to go) that has already concluded.

[Psittacosis]

Does anyone else end up with a lot of dropped keys on 60 FPS? It didn't happen when I played on 30 FPS, but ever since I switched, I keep getting shittons of dropped keys. I tried switching my key setup, which seemed to help, oddly enough, but it still happens quite a bit.

[arcnmx]

Originally Posted by Garquillex

there should be a tournament to see who can AAA Excite Bike on the highest rate

http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/...d.php?t=130544

Originally Posted by Doug31

I can't even seem to play autumn with the framerate on 120 and the speed on 2.5. I don't know what's wrong and it works on other songs. The notes just fly across the screen way too fast.

Refer to this (and feel free to edit it if you find more), a few songs unfortunately do this right now due to how they were sync'd.

Originally Posted by Psittacosis

Does anyone else end up with a lot of dropped keys on 60 FPS? It didn't happen when I played on 30 FPS, but ever since I switched, I keep getting shittons of dropped keys. I tried switching my key setup, which seemed to help, oddly enough, but it still happens quite a bit.

Hm, and setting it back to 30 magically fixes it? This certainly shouldn't be happening...

[Psittacosis]

Originally Posted by arcnmx

Hm, and setting it back to 30 magically fixes it? This certainly shouldn't be happening...

Seems like it, yeah. It just started when I switched to 60 FPS, and then I played like that for awhile, and switched back to 30, and it was fine again. I dunno if it's just MY computer or what, but it kind of sucks, ahah.

[yo man im awesome]

mmmm, 30 fps plays much better for me as well.

[arcnmx]

Originally Posted by Psittacosis

Seems like it, yeah. It just started when I switched to 60 FPS, and then I played like that for awhile, and switched back to 30, and it was fine again. I dunno if it's just MY computer or what, but it kind of sucks, ahah.

That's very odd, does it seem to be lagging visually? Does it also happen if you play at 31 fps? What if you go into editor mode and just keep hitting quads, do many arrows drop / not show up? Which Flash version are you using, if standalone?
Dropping keys means flash isn't seeing the key presses in the first place which is weird, bad, and not really fixable in the engine...

Originally Posted by yo man im awesome

mmmm, 30 fps plays much better for me as well.

Hm, well that in itself is a bit of a different problem. Feeling wrong, inaccurate, stuttering, these I can understand and potentially work with. Keypress dropping on the other hand should not be happening ever.

[Psittacosis]

Originally Posted by arcnmx

That's very odd, does it seem to be lagging visually? Does it also happen if you play at 31 fps? What if you go into editor mode and just keep hitting quads, do many arrows drop / not show up? Which Flash version are you using, if standalone?

It's not visually lagging at all. It doesn't happen in 31 FPS. In editor mode, it only occasionally doesn't register that I'm hitting keys. It's, like, one out of 100 arrows or so. I'm using Flash 11.

[yo man im awesome]

Originally Posted by arcnmx

Hm, well that in itself is a bit of a different problem. Feeling wrong, inaccurate, stuttering, these I can understand and potentially work with. Keypress dropping on the other hand should not be happening ever.

well the keydroppings and splits are 90% of the time my keyboard's fault, but it happens so often iunno which are from the engine or the keyboard.

[TheSaxRunner05]

Is there a way to hide opponent accuracy in MP? It's really distracting and might be lagging me a bit, Idk

I would support scores > rate 1.0 in increments of .05 to record