TWG CLXIV: Classics Man - Game Thread

[Hakulyte]

Something's not right with that 3/5 Shado wagon being still a thing until close to EoD.

[AragakiAyase]

On phone in between things so I have to make this quick

Let's quote a relevant post

Originally Posted by YoshL

actions taken in later phases don't automatically cleanse people of shit that they pulled previously.

I believe shado is capable of seeming human as a wolf
I've said many times over why I think shado is scum, there's a plethora of things because I think his day got progressively worse up to the point where he was lolcatting
My vote is literally never moving as much as I can help it

Witch's defense of shado and trying to find another wolf instead of shado while saying we can lynch him later reeks of a partner trying to save

The whole leaving shado until we have room for error is horseshit, we will always be one mislynch off mylo/lylo barring two scum deaths in one cycle, lynch + vigi so fuck that

[AragakiAyase]

Originally Posted by Hakulyte

Something's not right with that 3/5 Shado wagon being still a thing until close to EoD.

Insta is at 6 proper math please

Literally dgaf if people think I'm scum for parking on shado, I'm never moving unless it's to self preservation against witch or maybe wnb

[Hakulyte]

Originally Posted by TWG Jade Harley

she semi did the same thing to charu end of day 0 and its freaking me out a bit

I had Charu as top town in my list. I'm not surprised at all to see Charu getting "hard defended".

Raeko's lynch/kill could be to frame Shado.

[TWG Jade Harley]

Originally Posted by Hakulyte

Something's not right with that 3/5 Shado wagon being still a thing until close to EoD.

if your saying shado is town do you wolves parked vote on shado?

[ShadoWolfe]

Originally Posted by TWG Jade Harley

weak town:

proph - proph is trending down because hes not here enough! i cant really get a sense of where he stands on a lot of issues and id really like him to come and weigh in on todays posts beyond just make a single post and leave!!

sunfan - out of the people i asked about the dbp wagon yesterday, your response felt the least genuine! i mean its better than what i got from xel (nothing...) but still your reaction was not what i expected considering you started dbp wagon!! your tone and thoughts today are fine, but that one point is dragging you down in my mind and making me paranoid about you...

wineandbread - i feel so frustrated because i feel like when roundbox left i got cheated out of getting his thoughts about dbp wagon because he made 2 posts then peaced out, leaving me with almost nothing to go on for the day!! your first content post i really like, but its going to take a lot more than that to clear this slot in my mind.

Why do I feel like all of these weak townleans are pointing out more negatives than positives? Why are you townleaning them? Specifically sunfan and proph. If sunfan's post was the least genuine and his reaction was not what you expected and his tone and thoughts today are just "fine", why is he a townlean?
If you don't know where Proph stands and feel he's been making single posts and leaving, what's causing you to townlean him?

Originally Posted by TWG Jade Harley

THUNDERDOME:

aa - aa is really hard for me to read at the best of times, and this is not the best of times. my previous post showed why i think town aa could do what hes done and obviously as a wolf he could do it too. the thing thats balancing it out in his favor is he has been unrelenting in his questioning and scumhunting and seems to have towns best interests at heart, although a voice in my head is telling me that even that could come from a wolf mindset.

shado - i know your done talking about raeko, but that is a microcosm of a larger problem in that i cant i cannot understand where alot of your posts come from a town mindset. when i read posts from other people i can put myself in their shoes and think "yeah i would totally do that". i cannot do that in very many cases with you. ironically the only time im seeing where your coming from is recently when your campaigning against your lynch, and i agree that finding and investigating other people today is a wise use of time and i will be doing that, but my thoughts now are between aa/shado is our best chance to find a wolf.

Haha, funny that we're all just calling it The Thunderdome!
Do you have any specific posts that you were having trouble seeing from a town mindset? You say "the only time" you see where I'm coming from is when I campaign against my lynch, but I've made a lot of posts this game and it's hard for me to believe that you can't see a town perspective in any of them.

Also, I'd agree that it's quite likely there's a wolf in The Thunderdome (AA), but that's not a good enough reason to lynch "between AA/Shado". Actually, when you say "between AA/Shado", it seems pretty fake to me given that you're pretty much exclusively referring to voting me. Point is, even if you believe there's always a wolf in AA/Shado, that's a 50% chance from your perspective (really 0% since you mean me). If you lynch outside of The thunderdome, there's two wolves that you should have some reads on. --nvm, I just realized you don't have a scumleans section, just nulls and then the thunderdome.-- Well, what I mean is that there's two wolves at minimum outside the thunderdome, and you'd do pretty well to develop some reads on possibilities outside of me and AA.

[TWG Jade Harley]

Originally Posted by AragakiAyase

Insta is at 6 proper math please

Literally dgaf if people think I'm scum for parking on shado, I'm never moving unless it's to self preservation against witch or maybe wnb

oh

math is hard... :[

[TWG Jade Harley]

im freaking suspicious of everyone besides haku and mml so i guess i should merge null and weak townleans into one section called Beyond Thunderdome

[thesunfan]

I will not be active for the remainder of the phase.

[Wineandbread]

Day 1

---

Okay, I'm a bit confused how this works. It says wolf kills are predetermined and can only be prevented by jailing the wolf. They still only get 1 kill per night though right? But does that mean the wolves have 3 possible people at all times they can lynch, and they choose one? And if the person assigned to the specific kill is blocked, then no kill goes through?

This will probably be clearer as I read.

Anyway, after catching up:

AA: It seems AA is fighting a very multi-sided battle at the beginning of the d1 but the heat dies when he goes to bed. Nothing really egregious there. I once again like his content regarding Shado, but it's all he really addresses up to when I post. I think you should consider looking for some other wolves since you seem pretty adamant about Shado being a wolf. It basically made me forget most of what you were talking about up to when you started harping on him.
Haku: First d1 read list seems out of character with how Haku played d0, but I need to look again to make sure. Pretty sure he wasn't reading witch so high or AA so low. Later he basically says all he does is post to gather information and anti-town w/e. And then parks a vote on jade soon after, who was initially one of his more towny reads. This felt entirely like information gathering, since he felt the need to point out the status of insta to him. So on the one hand, I don't like Haku because of the chaos he is trying to fling, but I do like… what I think the intent is (which is basically breaking down Jade's RP). I'm glad he owns up to his hypocrisy in #2305, makes him more towny imo. He gets progressively better for me as the day passes.

Witch: (is it a he or she? I think I read someone asking the same thing d0) Witch's commentary is a bit more focused in d1, with an early target on Jade. Although his dialogue on Jade seems more a threat than an interrogation, he asks some decent questions to Haku. But overall I feel it is more "laissez-faire" than active pursuit of solving the game.

Shado: I find his argument of AA/Witch appealing, what I didn't like is that he ends up kind of playing in the past cause he has to address AA/sunfan accusations, which are indeed legitimate. Arguments/retorts are incredibly flimsy and hostile (and honestly there's not much to work with in his d0) and have no new insights really. Probably tilted or maybe just has nowhere to go. I think there is no way AA/Shado are same parity after d1.

Sunfan: I find it hard to pin sunfan scum from the shado interactions. That's the one big thing that stuck out to me. I don't really share his suspicion of MML (he changes this sentiment later). Otherwise nothing in particular popped out, but I'm on the edge of ruling him out via PoE

Xel: I think your kill reasoning on #2385 sucks, it is way more plausible for mellon to have been vigi'd (or maybe, it's better to say it is way more unlikely vigi shot Charu). Not to mention the vote on dbp is just blah. I feel like you don't really care about this game, maybe out of tilt idk. Bad vibes overall. Okay, you make a read list on #2798, seems like you just can't avoid dem tower posts ;P.

Proph: Seems eager to place a vote despite his first d1 post saying he wanted to review his scum reads/vote analysis. Otherwise basically quiet until the posts regarding his history. Which I'm not going to bother with. #2586 was… eh. He seems more focused on the shadow 'mixed signals' rather than his two wolves (not to mention he notes that Jade "seems decent enough for now" but has him as his bottom 2 scum) Otherwise, busy bee is busy.

Jade: The manner in which he handles AA/Witch/Haku is okay in my book, obviously with a bit of roleplay nuance. I agree with Haku that this kind of posting can be difficult to interpret but behind the green text and positivity, you can kind of infer where he is going with his posts. For example, he is for sure peeved with Haku hammering down on him around posts ~#2300. I liked the exchange with Haku and Jade regarding trying to put together teams cause it seemed pretty natural to me.

MML: The intent and delivery of the arguments against sunfan (esp #2324) seem towny to me, as well as his defense of Jade's roleplay. His later d1 posts probe some of the right things I feel better reading him as town in d1.

Town: AA, MML
Null+(+): Haku, sunfan
Null+: Proph
Null-: Witch
Scum: Xel, Shado

Overall at this current moment I feel Shado is the best lynch. My only issue is there could be too many people on this wagon. I will try to poke some other people. If on the offchance Shado is green, I immediately look to sunfan/AA. Gonna abstain for a bit.

This is as of pg. 146

[Wineandbread]

Originally Posted by Witch of Certainty

1. I'm town reading him because the major case against him as far as I understand, that he was tunneling Mellon and not really doing anything else, is overblown and flat out wrong, respectively, and he has good content and a good visible mindset in his posts.
As for who instead, I'd pick Jade, or wine since his not being here yet doesn't change that roundbox never delivered what he promised.

2. I'd hope you know "where my head is at" after I posted that list I think we should lynch from.
And I'm not trying to direct the flow? I've outright stated that town should only lynch from a group of five and asked that people drop their suspicions of someone I think is town with specific reasoning. Let me state that reasoning again for good measure: Even if you really think Shado is a wolf, leave him for now. If this was Xel, okay. If it was Proph, okay. But Shado's post rate, forcefulness, and presence will push wolves to kill him if he's town.
But then you could point out that they specifically won't kill him now? Doesn't matter. We'll lynch other wolves from my list, I'm sure of it. Then we can lynch Shado if you must, once we have more than enough room for error. And yes, my reads are fallible, I could be wrong about Shado just as much as anyone in my "do not lynch" group. But I believe in my reads just as much as you do in yours. And that list is not saying those people are lock town for the rest of the game. It's saying that they're bad lynches at this point.
I haven't worried about not finding wolves because instead I worked on finding people who I didn't want lynched. People I thought were town, who i thought were clearly not wolves, or people whose level of activity and thought made them self-resolving.
I've been taking people out of my lynch pool and called for town to not lynch them as well. I've been pushing what I think regardless of how it would go over, or do you think I post half of what I have? So how the hell do you say I haven't tried to direct things? Because I haven't been taking blind leaps and pushing thoughts and suspicions I don't have and/or believe? Because I have therefore mainly pushed against things I think are wrong/bad decisions? I think this is beneath you.
Does this help you finally understand my position?

I don't agree with the bolded because he is too controversial to kill off right now. But I do think a lynch grants us a lot of information on the people that bussed him (myself included? idk lol)
However I like the rest of this post and agree we should be looking for other awoo-ers

[Wineandbread]

Originally Posted by Hakulyte

How does that changes anything?

Actually, it doesn't. Also my d0 post neglected to put up my kill theory, which was basically just that mellon was shot by the vigi most likely, mostly because Charu is so unlikely to be shot by vigi (night action is not randomed, who would target Charu?)
If the system works how I think it works in my d1 post, then kills get a bit harder to rationalize I think.

[TWG Jade Harley]

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

Haha, funny that we're all just calling it The Thunderdome!
Do you have any specific posts that you were having trouble seeing from a town mindset? You say "the only time" you see where I'm coming from is when I campaign against my lynch, but I've made a lot of posts this game and it's hard for me to believe that you can't see a town perspective in any of them.

Also, I'd agree that it's quite likely there's a wolf in The Thunderdome (AA), but that's not a good enough reason to lynch "between AA/Shado". Actually, when you say "between AA/Shado", it seems pretty fake to me given that you're pretty much exclusively referring to voting me. Point is, even if you believe there's always a wolf in AA/Shado, that's a 50% chance from your perspective (really 0% since you mean me). If you lynch outside of The thunderdome, there's two wolves that you should have some reads on. --nvm, I just realized you don't have a scumleans section, just nulls and then the thunderdome.-- Well, what I mean is that there's two wolves at minimum outside the thunderdome, and you'd do pretty well to develop some reads on possibilities outside of me and AA.

everyone in weak town is pretty much cruising on my previous reads of them, but i agree i said i would reset but i wasnt mentally doing it. ill put them all in Beyond Thunderdome and try to see what i can to picking away at solving them before eod.

secondly, that post was hyperbole. i didnt say that i couldnt see town perspective from any of your posts, i said those posts are infrequent though. im even tinfoiling about your best hour (campaigning against dbp lynch when it started) because if you were a wolf that would be something you could easily bet on and have it pay out. iono maybe im tunneling and tinfoiling too much but i really mean it when i say its aa/shado. aa is only getting a pass based on previous stuff outweighing the dbp vote and the POSSIBLITY that they could vote dbp realistically as town. if you read my aa post youll see my points i have against aa. aa railroading and tunneling is something thats more wolfy than not because i feel like aa would be cognizant of the fact that he tends to do that and try to put more effort into solving other people like he did day 0 when he mentioned that very fact. ugh i just dont know atm

[Wineandbread]

Originally Posted by thesunfan

wabby's point about feigning inactivity is not the best look
I think we've talked before about how its unlikely/kinda bad game manners to lie about irl stuff like that

I don't agree with it but I think it's trivially easy to do. Not to mention all the times people are "in the thread" but don't end up actually posting anything. Or ghosting invisible status.

Actually I think I'm one of those invisible people. I'll change that in a bit.

[Wineandbread]

Originally Posted by thesunfan

Lar, when you're catching up, you'll see a post I made just 4 u

should explain the DBP stuff you've been wondering about

I feel this post is out of place? What's the point if he's going to read it anyway?

[Hakulyte]

Originally Posted by TWG Jade Harley

if your saying shado is town do you wolves parked vote on shado?

3 -- ShadoWolfe -- thesunfan (128), AragakiAyase (160), XelNya (21)

Take your guess. I feel biased at this point.

[ShadoWolfe]

Originally Posted by TWG Jade Harley

secondly, that post was hyperbole. i didnt say that i couldnt see town perspective from any of your posts, i said those posts are infrequent though. im even tinfoiling about your best hour (campaigning against dbp lynch when it started) because if you were a wolf that would be something you could easily bet on and have it pay out.

There were wagons on four people, do you really think none of them were a wolf? What I mean is, if I were wolf, that EoD was way too chaotic to be defending DBP in if there was a wolf in literally any of the other wagons. I could only see wolfShado trying to pull people off DBP "for towncred" in the event that there were 0 wolves in the other wagons.

[MixMasterLar]

So I ended up stepping away from the computer like two hours ago. I'm still behind and at this point I almost feel like I need to focus on what's being posted now rather then what happened.

Agree, disagree? vote now on your phone


As far as I can tell WnB tries to do what we all wanted Roundbox to do and AA/Shado keep raging. SunFan is more or less on AA's side on most issues but keeping his distance and Haku is being fucking stupid. Anything else?



Fah I'll probably keep a tab open to skim those pages throughout EoD I hate being behind.

[MixMasterLar]

Originally Posted by Wineandbread

Concerning groupings, I'm not sure if Shado and Xel are same faction but I am convinced at least one of them is. I am also of the opinion that we have a leader-ish wolf this game, gut hunch. Leaning towards sunfan, with an offchance of AA.[/b]

I wouldn't doubt AA is a wolf but that's more so a compliment that wolf AA is really damn good hiding out. There is nothing in his play that seems out of character for town AA

I think leaving him off the table is fine for now. As long as we have other strong wolf suspects AA is best kept at a town lean methinks.

Originally Posted by TWG Jade Harley

[Character breaking response]

haku you fucking dipshit stop trying to angleshoot and play the game the right way.

thanks,

- freezinice

[End character breaking response]

A wolf who was role playing wouldn't make this posts.

+1 for towniness.

Originally Posted by thesunfan

I will not be active for the remainder of the phase.

Boooo

Booooooooooooooooooooooooo

Originally Posted by Wineandbread

MML: The intent and delivery of the arguments against sunfan (esp #2324) seem towny to me, as well as his defense of Jade's roleplay. His later d1 posts probe some of the right things I feel better reading him as town in d1.

Did I defend Freezin? I recall saying that role playing was fucking stupid.
I did say that I wasn't going to scum read him for it, if that's what you are referring to.

But yeah just so we're clear if I ever play a game again and someone "role plays" imma sub out so goddamn hard, or at the very least park a vote on them and be a jackass about it. Shit sucks

[Wineandbread]

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

Why? You acknowledge that my insistence had the intention of making her move, so why is that a bad thing?
AA and sunfan were forcing the narrative that I was lying about that intention and that I was really trying to start a wagon on her, which is why they scumread me for that interaction.
What's your reason?

From what I remember, you were digging in way too hard on the subject at a rather sporadic time. It seemed really out of place, and you wouldn't let it go for a long time even after what I believed to be very good posts by mellon

Why is sunfan's EoD d0 really good? He asked for one more day (supposedly to avoid AA's "crazy" push), then immediately caused the granted time to establish and strongly advocate for a mislynch. I have a thought as to why you'd think that's good, but I'd like to hear your mindset.

While I didn't agree with his opinion of DPB, I do like many of the interactions that occured at EoD, one that I comes to mind was his post about trying not to out as vigi, as well as trying to actually form wagons rather than let the votes stand where they stood with all the scattered 1s and 2s.

Is this for what you said about my "really bad" interaction with mellon, or for my EoD? Because my EoD should be pretty protown. I actively tried to pull people off a townread I had, and that townread was eventually mislynched.

it was more because of your dialogue with mellon. I'll reread your eod in a bit.

b o l d b o y s