TWG 150: Undertale

[TWG Alphys]

Originally Posted by TWG Mad Dummy

You need to propose a reason why Charu would not be busing me here.

Because of your entire current argument

[TWG Mad Dummy]

Originally Posted by TWG Tsunderplane

i honestly don't think it's that outlandish that a player would choose to switch up their play precisely when everyone thinks they have it figured out.

pretending to bus a partner that turns out to be town would be so easy to pull off if people are expecting you to turn in your entire team. from what i've seen of charu's play (admittedly not as much as you) i have more faith that they would eventually cotton onto this as a valid path

it seems very very very very much that he is not switching his play up because of the fact that his townreads are 100% accurate. I so desperately wish that both you and Napsta are town because it would be the least Charu has bused before and like... its never good play to do what he does. He wins games off of it despite me trying to convince people to kill him. It took a modkill for him to die in the Supermarket game, not me trying to talk people into killing him. He won in the Smash game super super late. He probably wouldn't have died this game without Alphys's check. But in doing so he kills his entire team. I am illustrating this because the fact that he keeps winning games as a wolf in spite of the fact that he does this makes it somewhat clear that it gives him reason to continue busing.

I really, really would love it if both you and Napsta are town, but I highly doubt this. My citation is years of playing with him and several Skype conversations where I try to convince him that townreading partners, while you inherently don't believe what you are saying, is good wolf strategy, especially if you have a strong meta attached to you. He never agrees.

[TWG Papyrus]

Originally Posted by TWG Temmie

what is the possibility of Sans being Charu?

welp i can't use this for scumreading anymore

[TWG Mad Dummy]

Originally Posted by TWG Alphys

Because of your entire current argument

You think its a play set up days in advance? Its also reliant on the fact that Charu dies while I am alive, which would be weird. It would defeat most of the purpose of the reads post, no?

I mean I guess I see where you're coming from, but that's some shiny tinfoil you're wearing.

[TWG Tsunderplane]

Originally Posted by TWG Mad Dummy

it seems very very very very much that he is not switching his play up because of the fact that his townreads are 100% accurate. I so desperately wish that both you and Napsta are town because it would be the least Charu has bused before and like... its never good play to do what he does. He wins games off of it despite me trying to convince people to kill him. It took a modkill for him to die in the Supermarket game, not me trying to talk people into killing him. He won in the Smash game super super late. He probably wouldn't have died this game without Alphys's check. But in doing so he kills his entire team. I am illustrating this because the fact that he keeps winning games as a wolf in spite of the fact that he does this makes it somewhat clear that it gives him reason to continue busing.

I really, really would love it if both you and Napsta are town, but I highly doubt this. My citation is years of playing with him and several Skype conversations where I try to convince him that townreading partners, while you inherently don't believe what you are saying, is good wolf strategy, especially if you have a strong meta attached to you. He never agrees.

and this is exactly what a clever player would exploit when he feels people would least expect it

perhaps i'm giving charu too much credit; i'll readily admit that possibility. but if i was in his situation, and had gained notoriety for routinely bussing my entire team, i don't see how i could possibly pass up the opportunity to mindfuck everyone by not doing it

that you so firmly believe that this could not ever possibly change is what makes me believe this is actually happening

[TWG Alphys]

Originally Posted by TWG Mad Dummy

You think its a play set up days in advance? Its also reliant on the fact that Charu dies while I am alive, which would be weird. It would defeat most of the purpose of the reads post, no?

I mean I guess I see where you're coming from, but that's some shiny tinfoil you're wearing.

you were generally townread at the time and sans was scummy which is why it came to the point that he actually had to put a list out there to look good.

[TWG Alphys]

So I fail to see what's so weird about it

[TWG Mad Dummy]

Honestly, looking back, the possibility of it being only one is like... slightly reinforced by Sans read on Undyne. The only time that Charu doesn't bus is when he feels like a partner is posting literally perfectly. I have only seen this happen once, which was during the smash game. I'll do a comparison of the read on Undyne there and a read on his partner during that game.

[TWG Mad Dummy]

Originally Posted by TWG Alphys

you were generally townread at the time and sans was scummy which is why it came to the point that he actually had to put a list out there to look good.

yes, but we would've had to have planned it out the night before in wolfchat, and the previous day neither of us had any heat at all.

I have to admit that if I were a partner with Charu I would

a) be really happy
b) swear that I would never stop pushing him if he tried to bus me

so I guess its more plausible than I at first figured, but we still would've had to plan it out the night before.

[TWG Alphys]

I guess a plan is possible, but we would've had to talk about the plan.

[TWG Tsunderplane]

so i think i missed this somewhere and i do not have anywhere near the patience required to read through the thread again right now but why are you so certain that sans is charu again

this is a legitimate question, i'm not even trying to imply anything here

[TWG Mad Dummy]

Originally Posted by TWG Tsunderplane

and this is exactly what a clever player would exploit when he feels people would least expect it

perhaps i'm giving charu too much credit; i'll readily admit that possibility. but if i was in his situation, and had gained notoriety for routinely bussing my entire team, i don't see how i could possibly pass up the opportunity to mindfuck everyone by not doing it

that you so firmly believe that this could not ever possibly change is what makes me believe this is actually happening

I've been trying to change it for 3 years and he hasn't budged. So that's why I think the alternative is very, very unlikely.

Literally every recent anon game has gone like this (We've never been the same alignment in an anon game):

Random nightkills happen.
I identify a player as Charu
I call Charu out for said nightkills
People laugh at my posts and don't understand or listen
I attempt to get Charu killed while he kills most of his team
I never succeed

I do hope you can understand why I feel like this situation is very, very unlikely to be different from before, especially when I feel like evidence has been presented (the fact that his townreads are perfect).

[TWG Mad Dummy]

Originally Posted by TWG Alphys

I guess a plan is possible, but we would've had to talk about the plan.

its still reliant on the fact that he dies while I live, which is weird.

[TWG Tsunderplane]

Originally Posted by TWG Mad Dummy

I do hope you can understand why I feel like this situation is very, very unlikely to be different from before, especially when I feel like evidence has been presented (the fact that his townreads are perfect).

no i do see where you're coming from if it's actually been that long but i can't shake the feeling that this is exactly what a good player would do in this situation. his townreads being perfect doesn't persuade me much because it's real easy to have perfect townreads when you're a wolf

[TWG Alphys]

Originally Posted by TWG Sans

im toriel

Originally Posted by TWG Alphys

There's the Charu I know

Originally Posted by TWG Sans

there's the Gradiant I know

these along with general attitude of posts after I claimed.

[TWG Tsunderplane]

Originally Posted by TWG Mad Dummy

its still reliant on the fact that he dies while I live, which is weird.

this loops us back to you being pretty clear in terms of town read and he was looking very scummy so this is not very far-fetched

[TWG Alphys]

@tsunderplane or anybody questioning why charu is sans.

[TWG Tsunderplane]

i don't know everyone's playstyle well enough to decipher these things so i was curious

[TWG Alphys]

Originally Posted by TWG Mad Dummy

Random nightkills happen.
I identify a player as Charu
I call Charu out for said nightkills
People laugh at my posts and don't understand or listen
I attempt to get Charu killed while he kills most of his team
I never succeed

You're missing some stuff in here.

[TWG Alphys]

Originally Posted by TWG Tsunderplane

i don't know everyone's playstyle well enough to decipher these things so i was curious

The first is a kinda inside joke sorta thing. The other stuff is us 2 actually calling eachother out.