8th Official Tournament Isolations Thread

[HalfStep]

Thanks a lot Dossar

Edit: Audio not working for those files?

[Bobby Jeffrey Hill]

Originally Posted by DossarLX ODI

However, as a word of warning, my isolations do not have music in them. If anything, they should be used to examine certain patterns within the said section of the song, and to hear your keytaps to get a feel of how the part should be hit.

12

[sspeckless]

if you have time can you make one for ice valley from like 285 combo to 410 combo?

[DossarLX ODI]

Added:

- ice valley "beyond the searoad" 285-410
- [Tips] Slam the Door (Rogue Remix) One Hand Jacks <--- Not requested but I saw the jack transitions could possibly be a trouble point.

I also updated the OP with these

[emulord]

UHHH This seems incredibly unfair, idk. I don't think these should exist on a engine. If someone wants to recreate with stepmania thats fine, but this is way too generous for a tournament.
I didnt even like the transition to raw scoring as seeming too generous and making D1/D2/D3 final rounds stupid rather than hilarious mashfests.

[sspeckless]

Originally Posted by DossarLX ODI

Added:

- ice valley "beyond the searoad" 285-410
- [Tips] Slam the Door (Rogue Remix) One Hand Jacks <--- Not requested but I saw the jack transitions could possibly be a trouble point.

I also updated the OP with these

Thanks!!

[TC_Halogen]

Originally Posted by emulord

UHHH This seems incredibly unfair, idk. I don't think these should exist on a engine. If someone wants to recreate with stepmania thats fine, but this is way too generous for a tournament.
I didnt even like the transition to raw scoring as seeming too generous and making D1/D2/D3 final rounds stupid rather than hilarious mashfests.

It's not unfair at all because it's publicly posted and everyone has access to it.

As far as the transition to raw scoring, it's necessary, and far more intelligent to use as a scoring system. D1/D2/D3 didn't have any mashfests in the previous tournaments -- in fact, in the 6th official, all scores were SDGs in D1/D2 area. D3 had a low-teens score as the winner in the 6th official, too. In the 7th official, D1 had a ~1g discrepancy between first and second place scores (both in teens), D2 had near AAAs, and D3 had low SDGs as well.

[EzExZeRo7497]

Originally Posted by emulord

UHHH This seems incredibly unfair, idk. I don't think these should exist on a engine. If someone wants to recreate with stepmania thats fine, but this is way too generous for a tournament.
I didnt even like the transition to raw scoring as seeming too generous and making D1/D2/D3 final rounds stupid rather than hilarious mashfests.

Like what AJ said, the isolations are fine. It's totally fair since everyone has access to the isolation engine. Also, I would much rather see D1-D3 players try their best to PA something way out of their skill level than do mindless mashing.
Not to mention none of the top 3 players in the 6th and 7th official had that messy scores in D1-D3's final round to begin with.

[Garquillex]

If we're talking about fairness then it may be technically unfair to anyone who uses R^2 or R^3 and may also bind players to legacy if they want to keep making use of it

It might actually be bad to have this

[arcnmx]

I wouldn't take it that far, also totally irrelevant but R^3 should get a feature that lets you specify and play an isolated segment of a chart as a sort of practice mode >.>

I see nothing wrong with this, just another way to practice and improve your ability to PA a given song. It's a time saver at the worst.

[MracY]

Originally Posted by TC_Halogen

It's not unfair at all because it's publicly posted and everyone has access to it.

This is a shallow thought. There are nice arguments for the publication of that isolation engine, but it is false to say it is not unfair at all.

The fact that not every section of songs can be isolated at all times is enough to call it unfair.
1 A player needs to be lucky enough that the parts they're struggling with are generally considered hard enough to be isolated for them.
2 A player needs to be lucky enough that the person making the isolations have time to make them.
3 A player playing in legacy engine will have actual practice on the song, whereas players using other engines will obtain less use out of the isolations.

What if you're suddenly mindblocked with a pattern others don't have a problem with on the last day of the week?
What if most others had mindblocks on patterns you were able to do, but were able to solve them thanks to the isolations? What if you dropped out because the isolation for your particular pattern came too late, because the people making the isolations weren't paying attention on the last day?

Using it can be agreeable, but it cannot be called completely unfair, TC_Halogen.

[PaperclipGames]

Isolations can be considered a tool to improve your scores.

What if one person simply has a lot more spare time than someone else, and thus is able to score better? What is someone falls ill during a round? What if someone's keyboard breaks? What if someone goes to bed while having a safe score, but he goes below the elimination line while he's asleep, and the round ends before he wakes up? Et cetera, et cetera.

It happens. Never does every single person have the exact same environment and chances to perform well. In this sense, it is never completely fair.

I don't think isolation engines are so unfair that their existence needs to be discussed. People who want to make use of them, should, and otherwise just keep on playing on your own. I really don't see the issue.

As for the OP: I would love to see an isolation of the end of Quark (say, the last 30 notes with the 32nd rolls). I've been very close to an AAA multiple times and this part just keeps messing me up. Would be much appreciated. :3

[Raining Nails]

Originally Posted by PaperclipGames

As for the OP: I would love to see an isolation of the end of Quark (say, the last 30 notes with the 32nd rolls). I've been very close to an AAA multiple times and this part just keeps messing me up. Would be much appreciated. :3

Seconded! Although I could honestly use an isolation for the entire file

[SK8R43]

I would like to request a part from sleep that seems to give me like 5 boos and 3-4 goods EVERTIME lol

Just have to look at my replay and ill post it

[MracY]

Originally Posted by PaperclipGames

I don't think isolation engines are so unfair that their existence needs to be discussed. People who want to make use of them, should, and otherwise just keep on playing on your own. I really don't see the issue.

The argument was only put up to show to TC_Halogen that his shallow reasoning of the publication of the engine being completely fair is false. I will let you think for yourself about why it might be necessary to publicly show people that such reasoning is false.



I'll say your musings about the chaos of fate influencing the outcome of the tournament can be considered true depending on how you define fairness, but I'd like to point out that your last example makes no apparant sense in context with the rest of the things you posted.

The tournament is a contest of skill and determination with the goal of getting the highest score in a test to see in what manner the chaos of fate has shaped our minds and bodies into entities that are capable of smashing a lot of arrows rythmically. Your last example is therefore strange, because the determination exhibited in making sure you have a safe score is part of the contest of the tournament.

More importantly however, is that in your talk about how the chaos of the general situation already influences the outcome of the tournament, you don't really say anything about the extent to which the chaos added by the introduction of the isolation engine influences the outcome of the tournament, other than what you opine this extent to be.

Your musings are nice, but if the goal of your post is to post a response that somewhat shows the engine should be used, it would be a lot more meaningful to post reasons that show that the benefits of usage of the isolation engine outweigh the unfairness that is caused by using it.

[TC_Halogen]

Originally Posted by MracY

This is a shallow thought. There are nice arguments for the publication of that isolation engine, but it is false to say it is not unfair at all.

The fact that not every section of songs can be isolated at all times is enough to call it unfair.
1 A player needs to be lucky enough that the parts they're struggling with are generally considered hard enough to be isolated for them.
2 A player needs to be lucky enough that the person making the isolations have time to make them.
3 A player playing in legacy engine will have actual practice on the song, whereas players using other engines will obtain less use out of the isolations.

What if you're suddenly mindblocked with a pattern others don't have a problem with on the last day of the week?
What if most others had mindblocks on patterns you were able to do, but were able to solve them thanks to the isolations? What if you dropped out because the isolation for your particular pattern came too late, because the people making the isolations weren't paying attention on the last day?

Using it can be agreeable, but it cannot be called completely unfair, TC_Halogen.

1 A player needs to be lucky enough that the parts they're struggling with are generally considered hard enough to be isolated for them.

This isn't the case whatsoever. This is the reason why Dossar is taking requests. Last tournament, I made seven isolations for Gargoyle, which was D1's semi-final round, for KrazyKitsune. He was struggling with the entire second half of the file, so I split the last half into four parts in four isolations, two parts in two isolations, and then the full ending in one isolation. If you ask, you will receive. Dossar can do it, and I can do it too. Time constraints really aren't an issue, because it honestly doesn't take long to make an isolation -- referring back to the isolations I made last tournament, I made seven isolation files all of which were properly synced and had music to play (and this isn't intended to be a shot at Dossar who makes them without music, it's for the reiteration of time not being an issue) and did it in about an hour.

2 A player needs to be lucky enough that the person making the isolations have time to make them.

Refer to my above points, because again, if it's mentioned, it will get done. All that is typically requested is a specific area.

3 A player playing in legacy engine will have actual practice on the song, whereas players using other engines will obtain less use out of the isolations.

This is a completely assumptive statement. Just because a player uses the new engine doesn't mean they are incapable of using the other engines. It's not a favorable situation, but consider all of the people who were contending with the lag issues on the Velocity engine last round; many of them moved to unfamiliar engines to obtain their scores. Saying that they will obtain less use out the isolations is completely incorrect, because an willingness to try on an unfamiliar engine is entirely voluntary. I play on a newer engine (R^2), but I use isolations all the time, and they're never on a new engine, as you mentioned.

What if you're suddenly mindblocked with a pattern others don't have a problem with on the last day of the week?
What if most others had mindblocks on patterns you were able to do, but were able to solve them thanks to the isolations? What if you dropped out because the isolation for your particular pattern came too late, because the people making the isolations weren't paying attention on the last day?

Being blocked on a pattern is not a relevant issue, nor is it relevant if people have blocks on other patterns. Mental blocks are repairable through intensive practice on the troublesome pattern -- I've run into blocks plenty of times through tournaments, and I've run into them recently while using the newer engines when I don't have replays to aid me. I get to the trouble spot, screen cap the issue, and tap out the pattern slowly, rebuilding the pattern memory by practicing at higher speeds until it is corrected. This method is 100% fool-proof, considering a mental block (in this case) is an uncontrollable reaction/execution of a pattern. Just like with any sport/game, if you're not doing something correctly, what do you do? You readjust your approach and strategy.

If others have blocks on patterns that I didn't, and were able to solve them, complaining about isolations would be ridiculous. They used a tool provided for them to benefit their improvement. Anyone getting upset about users previously having trouble overcoming their issues is being completely irrational. That would be as bad as me playing a game of bowling with a friend and having him get upset because I corrected my form to increase my three-game-average by 80 points when he sat along and didn't work on a specific aspect of the game that was causing him to be imperfect; that would be as bad as swimmer 1 getting upset at swimmer 2 because they beat swimmer 1's personal best by repairing improper form while swimmer 1 only worked on endurance and not on a way to improve their speed; that would be as bad as (insert any scenario with a sport where someone strives to improve over someone else who doesn't focus on the necessary problem at hand).

One more thing: isolations aren't intended to be a fallback solution for everyone, because they do take time and require attention, which I am aware of. There are many other methods to practice -- I can guarantee nearly everyone has a higher-spec computer than I do; if you're playing on a newer engine, grab Bandicam, screen capture the pattern that is murdering your score, tap it out, play it until it feels right, and then try it in game. If you fail, tap it out some more until you get it right.

If you really want to consider my opinion "shallow" after thorough analysis and discussion like this, that's up to you; there's absolutely no reason for isolation files to be considered "unfair".

EDIT:

Originally Posted by SK8R43

I would like to request a part from sleep that seems to give me like 5 boos and 3-4 goods EVERTIME lol

Just have to look at my replay and ill post it

Just say the word and one of us will get it to you.

[Bobby Jeffrey Hill]

could you guys do notes 400-450 and 800-850 of 2-9 please?

[___________]

requesting the ending of quark, after the slowdown

[TC_Halogen]

Originally Posted by ___________

requesting the ending of quark, after the slowdown

Give a combo range so that Dossar knows where to start.

[Mollocephalus]

+1 for the burst at the ending of quark (and possibily the section with the jumpstream and the other burst with white notes at the beginning too!)

and Mracy, sorry but halogen said it all. it just... looks like you're trying hard to be witty? the points you raised are completely laughable and there's nothing wrong with isolations... quite the contrary! Be grateful people of the staff care so much about the community they even go as far as taking these initiatives. If i were part of the staff i would find your posts really annoying and spiteful.