Flight of the Bumblebee [11 or 12]

[emulord]

SSSG is a 7? Fake difficulty shouldnt count as part of the difficulty of a file imo.
This is a 11. Its probably indexable even.
Slowest FMO, if you do a hjkl setup the trills are completely doable.

[Hakulyte]

Originally Posted by bmah

We ARE making a new difficulty scale if you haven't noticed (1-20). It'll be released to the public soon...these will be massive changes.
SSSG HAS already been changed to a 7, thanks to this difficulty forum. Regardless, we'll see how it all turns out with the upcoming new difficulty scale.

Do you mean 7 in the scale of 1-20 that's not already implemented? It's currently a 5.
Otherwise, if major changes like this are coming, this thread is pretty much pointless. o:

[bmah]

OH right, forgot that a v2 was made for that song. Needless to say, it was even lower than a 5 beforehand. I still won't think it matters until the new scale is implemented. If you have problems after that, then you should probably voice your concerns.

[FrozenAngel91]

Originally Posted by kmay

its really not even that easy for index players.

This, honestly I remember when I used to index that you had to change directions a lot, and the patterns were actually pretty awkward. In a song this speed it was extremely difficult to manage all that, made it much harder than vertex beta even though I think they're close in BPM (I at least know they're close in NPS)

As for whether it should be an FGO or not, I personally think if you have the speed and reading ability to do this song, you also have the ability to do well on other FGO's too like Frictional Nevada or NaiNai (Frictional actually has very close to the same amount of AAA's as FoTBB does) so I think it should be an FGO

I'm going to be honest here, I don't get why people think that if the patterns are easy then the chart should be a lower difficulty. Speed is important, if you have the speed then reading a file becomes easier, and if you have an easier time reading a file than weird patterns or crazy bursts won't trip you up as much. With that speed, you can play this and other FGO's fine and it will seem easy, but without it you can barely FC and the file can seem impossible. So what I'm saying is, this file requires a lot of speed and if you have the speed to do it then you probably have the speed to do tons of FGO's too since that will make them much easier, so I think it's fair to call this an FGO

Uh sorry for the long rant, I don't think that made much sense and I didn't really have much statistical data :(. Um basically, the speed required for this file is FGO level, I think ability to do songs is mostly based on speed, therefore should be FGO.

>.> <.<

[nois-or-e]

Originally Posted by Hakulyte

if major changes like this are coming, this thread is pretty much pointless. o:

All of these threads are relevant, though new discussions will take place once the system takes off. This sub forum and the user input will play a massive part in its success.

[i love you]

I forgot that I was still viewing this thread LOL

Anyway, it was a fun read. People have their opinions after all.

PS: I personially think that FotBB should stay as a FMO. The only thing I see in this file that might make it a low FGO is that long one hand trill part. Everything else is just straightforward trilling for the most part with some light repetitive rolls here and there. When it comes down to it, I think it all depends on how well you can trill. This file was actually my 4th FMO AAA and at the time, I was not even close to score well on any FGO file nor did I had that much speed.

[AlexDest]

Originally Posted by qqwref

Basically, the reason I think top players should get out of these discussions is that the difficulty straight up doesn't matter to them. If you have every single high FMO and low FGO AAA'd, it really doesn't matter which one a file is, because you'll just AAA it anyway. But for people who have trouble with FMOs and even *more* trouble with FGOs, having a file they find really difficult ranked too low actually feels wrong. It's as simple as that. Difficulties are for everyone, and players who not only represent a very small fraction of the active community, but also don't even play a file more than a few times, shouldn't even be factored into the discussion.

You haven't bothered reading my post at all, have you.

Originally Posted by AlexDest

The problem is that there's a handful of people that are playing spread. People rule out the other styles of play--preferably index or three-fingered--which make FOTBB much more easier than playing on spread. Yes, the one-handed trills are brutal but we can't just base the difficulty for only spread players now. Everyone is just too undetermined to even approach this stepfile with another style of play.

I'm not intending to come out as an elitist, neither am I saying, "you guys are bad this file isn't an FGO." I'm saying is that we shouldn't be ruling out any of the other styles of play which make FOTBB more tolerable than just playing spread.

You guys are just lazy to attempt a stepfile like FOTBB on different play styles, and have to resort to changing difficulties around more suitable for spread because that's the most dominant play style there is.

Still standing as an FMO.

[rushyrulz]

AJ, your whole cooking argument is arrogant as hell. What I got from it is, "All you noobs don't know shit, so keep your mouths shut."

The cooking argument should be saved for a stepping argument if not withheld completely, because creating stepfiles is the closest rhythm gaming context I can think of to 'cooking' chicken. Playing the chart and judging it is closer to 'eating' chicken, so I guess everybody's taste buds are defective. I'm getting sick of using this analogy since it doesn't even apply to this situation, since nobody is criticizing arch0wl's stepping.

PS. Arch0wl I hate you for stepping this monstrosity of a file.

That is all.

[DossarLX ODI]

Subjectivemanias coming in here, but the hardest part of the file is that 4343 transition from that long runningman, this file is nowhere near as straightforward with its random patterns. I'm still standing at high 11 for this though, it doesn't warrant an FGO rating on the current 1-12 scale. On the 1-20 scale, it might be a different case.

rushy, that's what my post was getting at... the people who are having lots of trouble (which is the majority of the community mind you, not just a handful of top tier players) have the best idea on why the file is so hard for them. Having a top tier player just come in and be like "learn different play styles, learn to trill, etc" is just absolutely arrogant. I can even go as far as to saying: anyone who says "learn the file" should get less than 20 goods FC on Death Piano, and as long as you don't have under 20g FC, you are just arrogant and you suck. Or just don't use the "stop sucking" argument in the first place.

In fact, if it's so easy, go learn to switch to index on the one handed trills in Death Piano and learn to quad transition along with learning the jumpgluts and the trill. I agree that purposely making the file harder for yourself by not utilizing certain things does not justify harder difficulty, but it's another thing to ignore the other players who are having way more trouble.

[i love you]

Originally Posted by DossarLX ODI

Subjectivemanias coming in here, but the hardest part of the file is that 4343 transition from that long runningman, this file is nowhere near as straightforward with its random patterns. I'm still standing at high 11 for this though, it doesn't warrant an FGO rating on the current 1-12 scale. On the 1-20 scale, it might be a different case.

I will admit. I TOTALLY forgot about that runningman part LOL.

Still sticking to the FMO though.

[TC_Halogen]

Originally Posted by DossarLX ODI

rushy, that's what my post was getting at... the people who are having lots of trouble (which is the majority of the community mind you, not just a handful of top tier players) have the best idea on why the file is so hard for them. Having a top tier player just come in and be like "learn different play styles, learn to trill, etc" is just absolutely arrogant.

those who have extreme amounts of trouble on the file are also biased against the rating FOR THAT REASON, which is why i'm saying those who are capable of doing the file hold more merit in their rating if they can offer indifferent opinions on objective areas of the file - it's not arrogant at all and people are just being bitter, and if it sounds that way, then i'm sorry but i'm definitely not changing my opinion, just like I would expect people to adamantly defend their stance on something they feel strongly about - take my argument in stride and if you don't like it, ignore it; it's that simple

I can even go as far as to saying: anyone who says "learn the file" should get less than 20 goods FC on Death Piano, and as long as you don't have under 20g FC, you are just arrogant and you suck. Or just don't use the "stop sucking" argument in the first place. In fact, if it's so easy, go learn to switch to index on the one handed trills in Death Piano and learn to quad transition along with learning the jumpgluts and the trill. I agree that purposely making the file harder for yourself by not utilizing certain things does not justify harder difficulty, but it's another thing to ignore the other players who are having way more trouble.

oh i thought you already di-...bye

[stavie33]

One of the hardest, if not the hardest FMO's in the game for me. I had to train index for months to get the AAA, and I still find you either get it or your PA is awful. The blue note syndrome is atrocious, what's worse is the backgrounds bright as **** leading to lots of lag and funky spacing, and it IS fast to do the one handed trills, even the trills in general. Many will have to switch to index just to do the song. However it's a song that's so based on what you're good at. For example I'm awful at one handed trills, and background songs make my computer lag, so for me, especially with my current comp, it's harder than most FGO's. I don't think I can even SDG it anymore since I haven't indexed in forever, and I've never clean FC'd it spread. It's a song that forces most people to learn a new playing style, that says a lot. Unlike AIM anthem though which is pretty easy to cheat spread, this song is not. I however realize it's such an opinionated song (depends on your computer, as in if it can hold blue notes over backgrounds with no lag at all, it's straight 16ths, otherwise you're in trouble) and you can do trills, then it's not that bad. Thus I leave it really high FMO, which it is, like 81 or something is fine.

[SKG_Scintill]

Trills are basically as fast K8107's. FotBB tops NPS at 14, K8107 tops NPS at 16. It's a 10.

[qqwref]

Originally Posted by SKG_Scintill

Trills are basically as fast K8107's. FotBB tops NPS at 14, K8107 tops NPS at 16. It's a 10.

Yeah, and there are 8s with 150 bpm rolls, which run at 20 NPS. So we should probably just push both FotBB and K8 down to a 7. Raw NPS is clearly all that matters in difficulty.

More seriously: K8107 has two-handed jumpstream trills, whereas FotBB has a ton of long one-handed trills (at a higher BPM than K8107), plus awkward transitions, runningmen, and of course blue-note syndrome with a background. Even if you can hit everything perfectly, the blue notes make it easy to get lost and dump goods, and the background makes it harder to read. And if you ignore the chart and just look at the statistics of how well players do, there's no way for a reasonably intelligent person to conclude it's anything less than a mid FMO.

[SKG_Scintill]

I have proof to be reasonably intelligent, ur dum n stuff. It's a 10

[Hakulyte]

SKG_Scintill:

K8107: 0-0-0-0
FOTBB: 81-21-0-60

Come again. Seriously, it's a song you just need to play because stuff we say in theory is a ton more irrelevant than in practice.


v-- Not sure if trolling or trolling.

[SKG_Scintill]

I suck at VCs, I AAA'd K8107 when it was still a FMO. I haven't AAA'd FotBB, hence it's a 10.

[hi19hi19]

Scintill: 1
FFR: 0

Stay tuned for more~

[qqwref]

Sorry, Scintill, I thought you were making an actual argument. Carry on~

I still think, in general, that player statistics are really important when deciding difficulty. Maybe not as important as they are in TS (where difficulty is pmuch entirely determined by player scores, afaik) but it should certainly matter a lot more than some random top player's opinions on how hard patterns are. Whether we are using a 1-13 difficulty system or a 1-20 (or 1-50 or 1-100 or open-ended) we really need to be setting benchmark files and then comparing statistics, in a way that will not be affected by how long songs have been out or how hard they are to unlock. If the whole community statistically finds file A significantly harder than file B, file A is harder, no matter what *any* individual player says.

[jimerax]

hey, this is not a place to post irrelevant materials.