11-10-2009, 05:04 PM | #181 |
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Re: Is it wrong to be gay?
So what about those dogs that hump everything? I'd assume they are very much approving of sex with any kind of creature.
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11-10-2009, 05:20 PM | #182 |
Very Grave Indeed
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Re: Is it wrong to be gay?
What about kids who are thirsty and try to drink the drain cleaner? Just because they do something doesn't mean they know exactly what it is they are doing. Consent has to be informed to count.
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11-10-2009, 06:16 PM | #183 |
let it snow~
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Re: Is it wrong to be gay?
If this is seriously the best argument you can come up with for why two people in love with one another cannot get married, then you really need to check where your morality stems from.
This is pathetic. |
11-10-2009, 06:18 PM | #184 | |
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Re: Is it wrong to be gay?
Quote:
Any other argument is effectively out the window.
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11-10-2009, 06:33 PM | #185 |
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Re: Is it wrong to be gay?
Apart from religious reasons, gay couples raising children falls outside the social norms, so to maintain the status quo, same-sex relationships "should" be disallowed from having children.
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11-10-2009, 06:34 PM | #186 | |
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Re: Is it wrong to be gay?
Quote:
I made my opinion clear that I don't think the status quo is the best we can do in terms of bestiality, and Rubix made it clear why its chances of being legalized are so low they're negligible. EDIT: wait nevermind I just realized this stemmed from bobeck's rofl comparison of homosexuality and bestiality. I'm not even sure what kind of thought process leads to that comparison. |
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11-10-2009, 06:54 PM | #187 |
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Re: Is it wrong to be gay?
@Devonin. I am not and have not been saying that Homosexuality and Bestiality are identical. My point is to prove that the same reasons advocates use to make homosexuality right are also the same reasons that can be used to approve acts of bestiality and other morally reprehensible acts.
To the rest who are hung up over the issue of consent. If I'm correct, you are saying that the only moral issue separating acts of homosexuality from acts of bestiality is the issue of consent. So then putting consent aside, (just assume consent was not an issue) would you then approve of bestiality? Remember that consent is much more a legal than a practical definition, and it's not unfeasible to create some type of consent laws in regards to animals, as consent is not limited to verbal communications. Consider the dog who rolls over when petted, would that not constitute consent? And finally, for those accusers who show little knowledge by calling bestiality rape. It is LEGALLY IMPOSSIBLE for bestiality to be classified as rape. Consider the Californian statutory penal code SECTION 261-269. It starts with "Rape is an act of sexual intercourse accomplished with a person not the spouse of the perpetrator, under any of the following circumstances:" *feel free to view the rest http://davismaar.org/definition.htm notice the requirement of a person, and most states have something similar to this effect. For this very same reason one who kills a cat can not legally be charged with a homicide even though a killing occurred, because a homicide MUST occur between a human being. Last edited by bobeck; 11-10-2009 at 07:01 PM.. |
11-10-2009, 07:00 PM | #188 |
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Re: Is it wrong to be gay?
I would be ok with bestiality if they could give consent.
Also that isn't the definition of rape. Pretty sure you are just trolling though. I don't think anyone is that backwards minded. |
11-10-2009, 08:12 PM | #189 | ||
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Re: Is it wrong to be gay?
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Kids who grow up with homosexual parents turn out no different than kids with heterosexual parents. What matters is love and stability -- not gender -- from parents. Plenty of heterosexual kids don't "turn gay" when they have gay parents, unlike what some people wonder about. I can think of far worse circumstances for a kid to grow up in that have nothing to do with the sexuality of their parents (things that actually have negative effects such as abuse/neglect/lack of education/poor finances/etc). These are the things we need to worry about instead of quibbling over the obvious discrimination and fear that stems from pure ignorance and social stupidity. Quote:
If you're serious, you're also retarded. The reasons used to bash bestiality don't apply to homosexuality. Totally separate issues. The only thing they have in common is that they grind against societal norms. You can't use the same argument against all things against the norm, especially regarding rape. Logic-fail on your behalf. An animal that rolls over on its back may just want you to pet it. It doesn't mean it's giving you consent for sex. Besides, how is an animal going to let the authorities know it's been raped? An animal cannot speak, nor can it articulately communicate with a human -- it's on a completely different plane of understanding and communication. Any signal an animal gives can be interpreted in various ways. This isn't really even worthy of discussion. An animal can't give consent. Rape is engaging in sexual activity with someone through force or under duress. Mental ability is one of the most important criteria for consent laws, because it determines who can give consent and who cannot. If you get rid of that so you can have sex with animals, you also get rid of the one thing that keeps minors or the mentally impaired from giving consent. This is also the reason why having sex with someone who's vastly intoxicated is considered rape -- they're not mentally capable of verbally giving/withholding consent much of the time. Where it gets interesting though: Why allow murder of animals for food processing but not rape?
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11-10-2009, 08:21 PM | #190 | |
Very Grave Indeed
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Re: Is it wrong to be gay?
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As they don't suffer (Again, issues with factory farms specifically, aside) it is not considered morally wrong to kill them for food. |
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11-10-2009, 08:26 PM | #191 | |
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Re: Is it wrong to be gay?
Quote:
Basically just posing a question between human and animal rights and asking why you all think we say one thing is okay but another is not. (I have my own answer to this, but just wanted to see what you all thought)
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11-10-2009, 08:34 PM | #192 |
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Re: Is it wrong to be gay?
I always figured that since we can't tell for sure what other animals want/don't want, but we CAN tell what humans want/don't want, it would probably be more sensible to give much less consideration to the feelings of animals. You know? Might as well go with what you know.
That probably sounds kinda cold and inhumane, yeah, but still. I figure that's part of the reasoning behind not raising and killing humans for food. |
11-10-2009, 08:35 PM | #193 | |
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Re: Is it wrong to be gay?
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I'm pretty much neutral to the whole gay parents thing, although I can see it makes sense to avoid it. It's got to be weird as **** for the kid in social situations, like if friends come over or something. A friend of mine, his mom divorced his dad and ended up with another woman. And I never thought much of it, but if I had met him when I was like 6 and had experienced the same thing back then, I think I might have been weirded out by it and been overly judgmental.
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11-10-2009, 08:52 PM | #194 | |||
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Re: Is it wrong to be gay?
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Further, why then are we not charged with a battery every time a person pets a dog? After all, a battery is basically the touching of a person without consent. So, since a dog hasn't given explicit consent to be touched we shouldn't be able to pet it. (I am intentionally over looking the fact that one again battery this only applies to a person) Quote:
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11-10-2009, 08:53 PM | #195 |
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Re: Is it wrong to be gay?
bobeck, your lack of ability regarding reading comprehension is astounding.
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11-10-2009, 09:02 PM | #196 |
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Re: Is it wrong to be gay?
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11-10-2009, 09:02 PM | #197 | |
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Re: Is it wrong to be gay?
Quote:
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11-10-2009, 09:05 PM | #198 |
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Re: Is it wrong to be gay?
I don't mind attacking someone if they're trolling/retarded beyond belief. You're either one or the other.
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11-10-2009, 09:06 PM | #199 | |
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Re: Is it wrong to be gay?
Quote:
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11-10-2009, 09:29 PM | #200 | |
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Re: Is it wrong to be gay?
Quote:
Now, aside from MrRubix who is omniscient, What is it then that can or will separate the approval of homosexuality from eventually the acceptance of bestiality, putting the issue of rape and consent aside? (Since Rape and its inclusive elements applies only to humans) On a different tangent so as to not stray any farther from the topic, the question is "Is it wrong to be gay"? Apart from any moral compass (such as religion), there is no wrong in any activity. The question could be, why is killing for fun wrong? The answer aside from the legal aspect is...nothing. One may argue that its harmful to others. Well, who said harming others was wrong? Yes the law has imposed restrictions on harming others, yet if our only definition of right and wrong is only what the law says, then we are dictated by the desires of a fallible law maker and what may be wrong today might not be wrong tomorrow. Thus I think its necessary to clarify when asking '' is it wrong to be gay''. Is it LEGALLY wrong, or morally wrong? The legality issue can be easy to answer. The morally wrong issue is where, apart from some superior standard, the circular and really unsolvable debate begins. Last edited by bobeck; 11-10-2009 at 09:32 PM.. |
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