What's with the hostility towards Christians?

[Squeek]

Originally Posted by flipsta_lombax

Lol, I don't even know where to start. First, I wouldn't follow "people" who claim they hear God, but I'd probably be curious enough to ask them what they heard. And that "some guy" is also God. His son, Jesus Christ, the right hand of the Father, etc etc.

Jesus is not a man. Because of the way he was brought out and lived his life, He is also God.

And if people claim to hear God, that's cool, I'd consider it a blessing. But if it comes to doing things such as stoning your kids, they probably thought it was God talking to them. There are other things that can be heard in your head, but it doesn't mean it came from a good source, if you get my drift.

You missed my point.

Let's say I said I was the son of God. Would you believe me?

Why did people believe this carpenter fellow? Why don't people believe guys in New York?

The answer to an atheist's point of view is that he wowed them with magic tricks. The answer to a Christian's point of view is that he wowed them with miracles. Either way, he used sensationalism to sell himself.

You do realize of course that Jesus was not the only recorded miracle-worker at the time? People were living in poverty, wondering every day if they were just going to drop dead the next. They would've given anything if someone told them they could be saved.

On the second point...

Tell me, good sir, if God is an omnipotent, omniscient, all-powerful being, why does he choose such cryptic ways of contacting random people if they might interpret it as killing their children? He's supposed to be an omnipotent, omniscient, all-powerful being. He is supposed to have the power to create the universe. Why can't he summon the power to talk to us in more efficient ways? Why can't he just punish evil people himself, instead sending psychopathic mass-murderers on a mission from him to kill people. He's supposed to be an omnipotent, omniscient, all-powerful being.

And don't give me this B.S. that "God works in mysterious ways." You and I both know that's not true. That's a cover up you use when you can't explain when an atheist asks how such horrible things can happen to such good people.

[Megamanmaniac]

I believe that Atheism is a lie becuase if there is a painting then there has to be a painter becuase the painting is proof that there must have been a painter to paint the painting. If there is a building, then that is proof that there is a builder becuase there needs to be a builder in order to build the building. The building cant just come out of no where. So in the same way, we have creation and creation is proof that there is a creator that created creation. That is why I believe that atheism is wrong. My faith is not strong as a Christian but I work at it everyday in my life to answer many of lifes questions. I try to do my best to argue the point and get to an answer.

[foilman8805]

Originally Posted by Megamanmaniac

I believe that Atheism is a lie becuase if there is a painting then there has to be a painter becuase the painting is proof that there must have been a painter to paint the painting. If there is a building, then that is proof that there is a builder becuase there needs to be a builder in order to build the building. The building cant just come out of no where. So in the same way, we have creation and creation is proof that there is a creator that created creation. That is why I believe that atheism is wrong. My faith is not strong as a Christian but I work at it everyday in my life to answer many of lifes questions. I try to do my best to argue the point and get to an answer.

A cute metaphor is all this really is.

By this token there has to be a creator who created the creator and a creator who created that creator as well.

Do you see the infinite loop you fall into?

[Izzy]

How does that have anything to do with atheism...

[StringsnKeys]

"Can I trust my sensory inputs to tell me that this is in fact true?"

By that reasoning, you don't know you exist

[Megamanmaniac]

Originally Posted by foilman8805

A cute metaphor is all this really is.

By this token there has to be a creator who created the creator and a creator who created that creator as well.

Do you see the infinite loop you fall into?

Until you come to the end which is an all mighty creator (God) that is infinite and has all power. Do you see what I am saying?

[fido123]

Originally Posted by Megamanmaniac

Until you come to the end which is an all mighty creator (God) that is infinite and has all power. Do you see what I am saying?

How did he come to be though? Your argument is something can't come out of nothing, yet if you assume God is real, god came out of nothing and you can't have power if you don't exist yet.

[NFD]

Originally Posted by fido123

how did he come to be though? Your argument is something can't come out of nothing, yet if you assume god is real, god came out of nothing.

He made himself because he's god. Don't question it.

[Megamanmaniac]

Originally Posted by Izzy

How does that have anything to do with atheism...

It has everything to do with atheism. Atheist dont believe there is a god of some sort. They believe nothing created them. They have no boss. Just themselves. So basically its like if someone doesnt believe in trucks and there on a crossing a road and a truck is coming, there gonna get hit by the truck if they stay on the road even if they dont believe in trucks. The truth is the truth no matter what you believe the truth is. Same as if you dont believe in God, but judgement day will come, then what are you gonna do? Your not gonna get a free pass to heaven but you will end up goig to hell and that is not what I want to happen to everyone.

[fido123]

Originally Posted by Megamanmaniac

It has everything to do with atheism. Atheist dont believe there is a god of some sort. They believe nothing created them. They have no boss. Just themselves. So basically its like if someone doesnt believe in trucks and there on a crossing a road and a truck is coming, there gonna get hit by the truck if they stay on the road even if they dont believe in trucks. The truth is the truth no matter what you believe the truth is. Same as if you dont believe in God, but judgement day will come, then what are you gonna do? Your not gonna get a free pass to heaven but you will end up goig to hell and that is not what I want to happen to everyone.

Your example with trucks is probably the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Atheists believe in what science has proved (Well at least most do, some just don't give a **** about where they came from). I'm an Atheist/Darwinist, and I go to a Christian school and keep an open mind. Fact is the question is too big for us to answer at least yet, however I believe we should take what we know and take an educated guess. There are transitional fossils, abiogenisis is a fact and has been recreated, and are many more facts that prove evolution. IMO, it's silly to think it's false, and since Christianity believes in Creationism, I believe it to be false. As for the idea of a god, it just seems like wishful thinking. Even though I want religion to be true, it doesn't make it so.

[Tokzic]

Originally Posted by StringsnKeys

"Can I trust my sensory inputs to tell me that this is in fact true?"

By that reasoning, you don't know you exist

"I think, therefore I am."

This isn't complicated. The mere fact that I can ask myself whether or not I exist must mean I do exist. Likewise, if I were to not exist, there would be nowhere for these sensory inputs (whether they are true or false) to go into.

I do not know the nature of the things, but I do know that there is some manner of box to contain them.

Originally Posted by Megamaniac

Until you come to the end which is an all mighty creator (God) that is infinite and has all power. Do you see what I am saying?

I see what you're attempting to say, but your point is flawed.

Let's say there is a long string of dominoes that are going around a corner. They are standing one moment, but the next, they are all toppling and now they are fallen. You are making the equivalent claim, "Someone must have knocked down the first domino, there is no other explanation." However, I am around the corner where they begin, and I observed that a gust of wind started the chain.

A painting is something which MUST have some sort of intelligent creator. We can infer this from the deliberate nature that we observe in the final product.

The universe is not a painting. There is nothing we can consider evidence that infallibly suggests someone did it. A god is just a simple conclusion that is arrived to by people who cannot accept there is anything permanently beyond their comprehension.

[Flaming_Dingleberry]

God was never created, he was always there... or something.

[fullmetal_alchemist027]

Originally Posted by Megamanmaniac

It has everything to do with atheism. Atheist dont believe there is a god of some sort. They believe nothing created them. They have no boss. Just themselves. So basically its like if someone doesnt believe in trucks and there on a crossing a road and a truck is coming, there gonna get hit by the truck if they stay on the road even if they dont believe in trucks. The truth is the truth no matter what you believe the truth is. Same as if you dont believe in God, but judgement day will come, then what are you gonna do? Your not gonna get a free pass to heaven but you will end up goig to hell and that is not what I want to happen to everyone.

So your saying Im going to hell because I dont believe in the Christian God? Awesome.

[Tokzic]

Originally Posted by Megamanmaniac

It has everything to do with atheism. Atheist dont believe there is a god of some sort. They believe nothing created them. They have no boss. Just themselves. So basically its like if someone doesnt believe in trucks and there on a crossing a road and a truck is coming, there gonna get hit by the truck if they stay on the road even if they dont believe in trucks. The truth is the truth no matter what you believe the truth is. Same as if you dont believe in God, but judgement day will come, then what are you gonna do? Your not gonna get a free pass to heaven but you will end up goig to hell and that is not what I want to happen to everyone.

And yet again, your metaphor is flawed.

You're saying that a truck is coming, when really, if we saw a truck coming, we'd move.

What's closer to reality is that I'm standing in the middle of an empty road, and you're telling me a truck is coming. I respond that I see no truck. You tell me it's invisible. I respond that I hear no truck. You tell me it's a silent truck. Do you really expect me to believe a truck is coming? Even you don't know that a truck is coming, you have nothing to go on but your gut, and gut feelings have no greater instance of success than dumb luck.

Also, don't worry, it won't happen to anyone. Heaven and hell are a fictional scare tactic to obtain more members. Your undetectable truck isn't coming.

[Megamanmaniac]

The truth hurts those who hate the truth. That is why some people do not believe in God becuase they will not submit that they have sinned against Him and they will not repent and go the right way. That is all I have to say right now. I cant think of what to say back to all of this becuase like I said I am not that strong in my Christian faith yet but it will build and I will come up with an answer. If I had my pastor with me or my Dad then they would be able to answer becuase they are VERY strong Christians. My pastor has been arrested more then 3 times for witnessing and handing out tracks on the "public sidewalk" and has been helping our church go out into the public to witness to people. I plan on being able to join and witness along with him.

[StringsnKeys]

"I think, therefore, I am" You are, because I think you are? Here we go with sensory input again.....I know the argument.....I think you are, because I can see you, I hear you, touch you, smell you, taste you (taste you?). You think you are, because you think. You think you think. Well as long as we're all here trying to prove everything to each other, prove to anyone here that you think. Funny cuz to do that, even to yourself, you're relying on sensory input...which may or may not accurately portray the world around you. You can only prove what you know, and even then you can only show a truth by basing it off of other truths. This assumes you have all truths. Since you can only know what you know, aka, you can't know something you don't know, you don't know everything. Even if you did, there is no way you could know you knew everything. If you don't know everything, you don't have all truths. But a truth is really only a truth if you have all other truths, otherwise, you might have missed something that makes whatever it is you're trying to prove, false. Since, none of us have all truths, you really can't "prove", anything. What you're doing, is trying to reason with something on a balance of probabilities. That is the best you can do. So let's just change Rene Descartes's saying to, "I think, therefore I am, I think"

[StringsnKeys]

None of you can "prove" that there is no God. None of you can "prove" that there is. Yet strangely, there will be hundreds more posts from those of you who think you can "prove" yourself to one another.

[Squeek]

Originally Posted by Megamanmaniac

The truth hurts those who hate the truth. That is why some people do not believe in God becuase they will not submit that they have sinned against Him and they will not repent and go the right way. That is all I have to say right now. I cant think of what to say back to all of this becuase like I said I am not that strong in my Christian faith yet but it will build and I will come up with an answer. If I had my pastor with me or my Dad then they would be able to answer becuase they are VERY strong Christians. My pastor has been arrested more then 3 times for witnessing and handing out tracks on the "public sidewalk" and has been helping our church go out into the public to witness to people. I plan on being able to join and witness along with him.

Uh, no.

Your 'truth' doesn't make sense to us, because we rely on logic and reason to explain things that happen.

We don't believe in God because it doesn't make sense to us. There's a logical explanation for everything in the world. We don't have to be like the Greeks who made a God for everything they didn't understand: Love, Lightning, Death, etc.

What is a "sin" to you is nothing to us. Unless we break the laws of our country or our world, we've done nothing wrong. You're the ones telling us we're doing something wrong because you claim your God said it was wrong. You realize eating pork goes against another person's God? Why do you disobey their God? Is it because you don't believe in their God? Then why won't you let me not believe in yours?

Also, your Pastor is sinning. He's breaking the law of the land, which supercedes the rules of religion. He really needs to pray on that.

[Izzy]

It's so painful to read megamanmaniac's posts. Makes me want to kill myself at the thought that people are that blind. Thought this was the 21st century.

[Megamanmaniac]

Originally Posted by Squeek

Also, your Pastor is sinning. He's breaking the law of the land, which supercedes the rules of religion. He really needs to pray on that.

He has the freedom of speech according to the 1st Ammendment which our church excersizes that freedom as much as we can. That right is being taken away from of us and we will not stand for that. My pastor was doing the right thing and now he can witness anywhere without being arrested as long as it is public area. He doesnt go into the Abortion Clinic inside the building and witness there but he witnesses where he is allowed to witness and it was not right that he was arrested for that.