Drinking age lowered to 18? - Page 6

MrRubix · 08-21-2008, 02:17 AM

devonin: I think 17-18 is an appropriate cutoff simply because at that age, most students are still in high school. Most 21 year olds will be in college, where they're technically on their own when it comes to day-to-day decision making, independent of the direct influence/orders/wishes of their parents. I don't think "average judgment" is significantly different at either age when it comes to 18 vs. 21, but I do think there is a huge difference when it comes to situational and environment differences. I simply feel that you're better off learning in one environment versus the other.

rzr · 08-21-2008, 02:20 AM

Well, the thing about calling people who drink too much dumbasses is they can be addicted. The smartest person in the world could be an alcoholic and never know it. But I don't think any of us want to debate the meaning of the word dumbass.

**devonin** · 08-21-2008, 02:20 AM

That sounds eminantly reasonable to me. Mind you, I'd be more inclined to move those limits more towards 16 if only to try and fight against the ridiculous over-parenting that has been getting worse and worse in the past, call it, 120 years.

Time was, by the time you could walk, and talk and dress yourself, you were an adult and pretty much on your own. It's only been since child labour laws, and mandatory education that there was even such a thing as a 'teen' you were a child until you were an adult.

We've socially engineered into our society this whole range of years where we ever so carefully coddle our children into picking up little bit after little bit of adult responsibility before finally letting them go, and it's pretty much entirely responsible in my opinion, for the majority of the problems facing teenagers in society.

rzr · 08-21-2008, 02:27 AM

I don't know what it is, but a gut feeling tells me lowering the drinking age to 16 or 17 would be too bad. Putting it at 18 where one can smoke and die for their country seems reasonable. But 16 or 17?

**devonin** · 08-21-2008, 02:28 AM

If you read all of my post, you'd see my reasoning, and why your objection doesn't really need to be made.

rzr · 08-21-2008, 02:31 AM

All 5,699 posts or just the ones in this thread? I thought I had read the ones in this thread.

EDIT: You posted twice more since I posted this.

**devonin** · 08-21-2008, 02:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rzr

All 5,699 posts or just the ones in this thread? I thought I had read the ones in this thread.

"if only to try and fight against the ridiculous over-parenting that has been getting worse and worse in the past, call it, 120 years."

rzr · 08-21-2008, 02:34 AM

Oh, I read that. If I hadn't I wouldn't have been able to reply with what I did. I don't understand what you'd saying, though.

UnkownMan · 08-21-2008, 02:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by devonin

"if only to try and fight against the ridiculous over-parenting that has been getting worse and worse in the past, call it, 120 years."

Actually he's right. Drinking shouldn't be allowed for kids at 18. It's like allowing kids to go to strip malls and casino 12. It just doesn't make sense. They say it is supposed to have less DUIs and DWIs. That's just a crock of ****. Anyone can vouch for me on that. 16 year olds probably can't even drive yet. It just doesn't make sense!

**devonin** · 08-21-2008, 02:36 AM

Objecting to my point about preferring to lower the age to 16 if just to combat the ridiculous over-parenting with basically 'I dunno...16 seems too young to handle that' isn't really an objection, so much as a highlight of exactly what I'm talking about.

There is no logical reason why you can't prepare someone to make rational decisions about an intoxicant by the time they are 16. By the time they are 16 in Canada, they can legally consent to sex with adults, and we manage to keep the teen pregnancy and abortion rates at least somewhat reasonable. I'm pretty sure that with parents giving their kids a little more respect as intelligent people, and kids stepping up a little bit, they can cope with some beer.

Quote:

Anyone can vouch for me on that. 16 year olds probably can't even drive yet. It just doesn't make sense!

Seriously, go out to farm country some time. The kind of place where everyone in the family is putting in 12 hour days of hard labour as soon as they are old enough to stand up to it physically. The kids are driving full-sized heavy farm machinery by 13 or 14 and doing it a sight better than many 18 year olds in dad's civic out on the highway.

The only reason our teenagers are unable to handle this stuff is that their parents (and their parent's parents, and so on) have insisted on breeding dumb into their kids by consistantly and systematically convincing themselves and their children that teenagers are stupid morons.

Chrissi · 08-21-2008, 02:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnkownMan

Actually he's right. Drinking shouldn't be allowed for kids at 18. It's like allowing kids to go to strip malls and casino 12. It just doesn't make sense. They say it is supposed to have less DUIs and DWIs. That's just a crock of ****. Anyone can vouch for me on that. 16 year olds probably can't even drive yet. It just doesn't make sense!

What doesn't make sense is your post. Perhaps YOU were drinking while you wrote it?

RawrInc · 08-21-2008, 02:38 AM

This thread is never gonna go anywhere special.

It's all about personal beliefs.

You are either for the idea, against the idea, or a various level of a medium.

and I could drive better than most adults at 16, imo.

rzr · 08-21-2008, 02:41 AM

Ok, I'v had an epiphany! Some 16 year olds can handle drinking when others can't, right? Some 21 year olds can handle drinking while others can't, right?

How about an Alcohol Test? Like a drivers test. The individual needs to prove their worthy of the privilge (sp?) before gaining it.

**awein999** · 08-21-2008, 02:43 AM

wow, I never really thought about it like that devonin, I'm starting to agree with you. We as a society have made imaginary lines of restrictment to try and protect young people which is not the natural thing to do.

Chrissi · 08-21-2008, 02:43 AM

That has too many bad points.

First of all, who decides? How do they make the test? How do they make sure it's not biased?

Second of all, should ANYBODY really have that power? The power to make a test that determines who should be able to drink, or who should be able to drive? The current tests for driving are based on things that are very much related to the mechanics of handling a car and knowing the street signs - this is, understanding the restrictions that society has set up to make car driving safe. Very different from drinking - anybody can pick up a bottle and chug it. You don't need a certain skill to make sure you can do this.

It's too subjective. The only solution is a general age at which most people think the decision can be made.

RawrInc · 08-21-2008, 02:43 AM

That's a horrible idea, would waste money, time, be quite unhealthy. No way that would ever happen.

rzr · 08-21-2008, 02:45 AM

Who made drivers tests? The same questions were probably asked then, too.

Chrissi · 08-21-2008, 02:45 AM

I realized when I said that, that I was missing a bit of info about driving tests so I edited my post.

rzr · 08-21-2008, 02:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RawrInc

That's a horrible idea, would waste money, time, be quite unhealthy. No way that would ever happen.

I literally laughed out love reading that. How on earth could a test be unhealthy?

Chrissi · 08-21-2008, 02:49 AM

Well, driving tests require you to drive a vehicle in (mildly) difficult situations.

So to pass a drinking test... would you have to drink a lot of alcohol and prove you won't throw up or fall asleep on the front lawn?

08-21-2008, 02:17 AM	#101
MrRubix FFR Player Join Date: Dec 1969 Location: New York City, New York Posts: 8,340	Re: Drinking age lowered to 18? devonin: I think 17-18 is an appropriate cutoff simply because at that age, most students are still in high school. Most 21 year olds will be in college, where they're technically on their own when it comes to day-to-day decision making, independent of the direct influence/orders/wishes of their parents. I don't think "average judgment" is significantly different at either age when it comes to 18 vs. 21, but I do think there is a huge difference when it comes to situational and environment differences. I simply feel that you're better off learning in one environment versus the other. __________________ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0es0Mip1jWY

08-21-2008, 02:20 AM	#103
devonin Very Grave Indeed Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Ontario, Canada Age: 40 Posts: 10,098	Re: Drinking age lowered to 18? That sounds eminantly reasonable to me. Mind you, I'd be more inclined to move those limits more towards 16 if only to try and fight against the ridiculous over-parenting that has been getting worse and worse in the past, call it, 120 years. Time was, by the time you could walk, and talk and dress yourself, you were an adult and pretty much on your own. It's only been since child labour laws, and mandatory education that there was even such a thing as a 'teen' you were a child until you were an adult. We've socially engineered into our society this whole range of years where we ever so carefully coddle our children into picking up little bit after little bit of adult responsibility before finally letting them go, and it's pretty much entirely responsible in my opinion, for the majority of the problems facing teenagers in society.

08-21-2008, 02:28 AM	#105
devonin Very Grave Indeed Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Ontario, Canada Age: 40 Posts: 10,098	Re: Drinking age lowered to 18? If you read all of my post, you'd see my reasoning, and why your objection doesn't really need to be made.

08-21-2008, 02:38 AM	#112
RawrInc FFR Player Join Date: May 2008 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 54	Re: Drinking age lowered to 18? This thread is never gonna go anywhere special. It's all about personal beliefs. You are either for the idea, against the idea, or a various level of a medium. and I could drive better than most adults at 16, imo.

08-21-2008, 02:43 AM	#115
Chrissi FFR Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: The Game Age: 37 Posts: 3,019	Re: Drinking age lowered to 18? That has too many bad points. First of all, who decides? How do they make the test? How do they make sure it's not biased? Second of all, should ANYBODY really have that power? The power to make a test that determines who should be able to drink, or who should be able to drive? The current tests for driving are based on things that are very much related to the mechanics of handling a car and knowing the street signs - this is, understanding the restrictions that society has set up to make car driving safe. Very different from drinking - anybody can pick up a bottle and chug it. You don't need a certain skill to make sure you can do this. It's too subjective. The only solution is a general age at which most people think the decision can be made. __________________ C is for Charisma, it's why people think I'm great! I make my friends all laugh and smile and never want to hate!

08-21-2008, 02:43 AM	#116
RawrInc FFR Player Join Date: May 2008 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 54	Re: Drinking age lowered to 18? That's a horrible idea, would waste money, time, be quite unhealthy. No way that would ever happen.

08-21-2008, 02:45 AM	#118
Chrissi FFR Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: The Game Age: 37 Posts: 3,019	Re: Drinking age lowered to 18? I realized when I said that, that I was missing a bit of info about driving tests so I edited my post. __________________ C is for Charisma, it's why people think I'm great! I make my friends all laugh and smile and never want to hate!

08-21-2008, 02:49 AM	#120
Chrissi FFR Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: The Game Age: 37 Posts: 3,019	Re: Drinking age lowered to 18? Well, driving tests require you to drive a vehicle in (mildly) difficult situations. So to pass a drinking test... would you have to drink a lot of alcohol and prove you won't throw up or fall asleep on the front lawn? __________________ C is for Charisma, it's why people think I'm great! I make my friends all laugh and smile and never want to hate!

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