Super Smash Brothers Brawl

[Relambrien]

Originally Posted by ducky285

very long post

Pretty much what I was getting at. Wavedashing is gone and behind everyone now--it's irrelevant whether or not it was intended, whether it was a glitch or exploit, etc. However, thanks to wavedashing (or more specifically, its removal and the reasons behind it), we now know how gaming companies are evolving. The casual (sometimes called "social") gamer demographic is growing and growing, while the hardcore (sometimes referred to as "competitive" though one doesn't necessarily imply the other) gamer demographic is remaining fairly stagnant.

The number of people who will buy a $50 game to pick up and play a simple, fun social activity is far, far greater than the number of people who will buy a deep, complex game with tons of nuances that can greatly affect gameplay. As game companies shift to developing for these people, there's a very likely possibility that the hardcore gamer will get the shaft. There's more money to be made in the social gaming market, after all. This is what worries me. I can't enjoy casual/social games. I just can't. I need depth, intricacy, complexity, to truly get the rush out of gaming that is the reason I play. If companies develop for a larger market at the cost of these things, video gaming may eventually no longer be entertaining for me. I'm sure others share this sentiment as well.

If nothing else, the future of the gaming industry as gaming becomes more widespread is worth discussing, though that would be better done in a different thread. If there's enough interest, I'll go ahead and make one.

Originally Posted by Squeek

And hey, who says Brawl can't be complex without a physics engine abuse? Has anyone ever had the same battle play out twice? Hell, I guarantee you could take every match ever carried out from everyone around the world and you'd never have a mirror image.

Mario Kart is basic as hell because even without cheating (read: snaking), I can beat the AI every time I play the game. Brawl is complex because I can get better and better and better and still lose fights against the AI. No matter how good I get, there will always be something I don't expect about to happen that could turn the tide of the match.

And yes I admit I lose fights against the AI. Anyone who doesn't admit that is a liar.

And hey, all along I said that you play Brawl the way you want to play. Just don't try to cram your playstyle down other people's throats. Surely you can reach a compromise (which I've been trying to do) that works for both parties.

I'm not saying Brawl isn't complex--I'm saying the mindset of Nintendo (and other developers) seems to be shifting toward creating games that are easy and fun to just pick-up-and-play with very little learning curve, as Sakurai's statements seemed to imply. The fact that it was within a Brawl context is just happenstance.

Also, yes, everyone has lost to the AI at one point.

And I agree that people should just play how they want to. Those on the competitive side who try to "cram [their] playstyle down other people's throats" are the vocal minority. And I'm sure the same is true for the other side as well.

[Loyal2Death]

Originally Posted by souljaboy4

Dude you are not the best super smash brawl player on this site plus i can beat you any time the character i can beat anyone with is sonic i can do the 100 multi man brawl with out getting hit

1. Not here. Don't do this here. We just had a big war about egos a couple pages back.

2. I'd REALLY like to see you do 100 multi man brawl without getting hurt (without hugging ledges either)

[korny]

Souljaboy check your pms.

[Squeek]

The quote unquote 'simplifying' of games these days isn't to level out the playing field. It's to embrace a new audience.

Game developers realized that marketing games solely to the 18-24 male demographic is a great way to lose money. When you can market the same game with minor tweaks to the 14-32 male/female demographic, you can sell double or triple sales of your game.

[Afrobean]

In addition to what Squeek said, they HAVEN'T SIMPLIFIED BRAWL. It has more actual depth than Melee, and the only thing Melee has that Brawl doesn't is a particular physics bug. Brawl has everything Melee has, plus more stages, more characters, and more items, with the only missing element being a glitch.

[zidart]

well the casual can play in their easy mode while the hardcore play with the intense mode and the pros play with other pros, it's been like this since the first smash brothers and it will always be this way.

(in other words i wished other games got difficulty levels)

[Silvuh]

Allow me to be a tad meticulous here...
Of course there are things past wavedashing that Melee has and Brawl doesn't. There are stages, characters, and items that were not imported in to Brawl. Even characters that were imported have differences in their move sets. The Classic mode works differently, and the Adventure mode is completely new.
I wouldn't be surprised if you thought about this, though. I mean, what Brawl has that Melee doesn't is easily made up for. But I just like asking people to be more specific.

Only other notable difference is the Break the Targets. Melee has individual stages, and Brawl has five graduated, generic levels. What I was hoping for was a combination of the two ideas: graduated levels for each character. The final stage would require mastery of all the aspects of a character. Also, that would make Break the Targets more useful when it comes to training—if it was actually difficult and required such skills.
Having generic stages isn't fun when some characters just can't do things as well. For instance, Lucario's Up B doesn't do damage, so breaking the last target in Level 4 is a bit of a hassle. A Mastery stage for Lucario might include using his Up B to weave through curved passages or something.

[l2awr]

Originally Posted by Afrobean

That was quite possibly the dumbest thing I've ever heard. No two matches play the same, not even the same two players on the same stage with the same settings. Player's choose different tactics, and hey, players learn and get better, develop new techniques, and abandon ones that don't work as well.

No matches play the same? LOL

All the characters in BRAWL have certain strategies that are known as the BEST strategies. Give me some characters and I'll tell you the strategies for most of them. Now people who want to WIN will use the BEST strategies.

Lets take ZELDA for example. Her best strategy us CAMPING with Dins Fire. If you roll around them all and then into or behind him he can simply grab you, or do a smash. For the majority of the game A Zelda player will play off that strategy. Now if that happens every game is it not repetitive?



Keep in mind I'm talking about the highest level, so far.

Originally Posted by Afrobean

Brawl has everything Melee has, plus more stages, more characters, and more items,

That is deep...how did I miss that?

[Laharl]

This thread:



BAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

[ckj846]

Because the Flare will hit in the same spot, every time. And the other character will dodge it the same, every time. And the person will get hit again everytime. And then they dodge again. And then they smash zelda at the exact same time and meteor her to her death. And then the exact same sequence happens again. So Zelda loses.

Right.

O_o

[l2awr]

Originally Posted by ckj846

Because the Flare will hit in the same spot, every time. And the other character will dodge it the same, every time. And the person will get hit again everytime. And then they dodge again. And then they smash zelda at the exact same time and meteor her to her death. And then the exact same sequence happens again. So Zelda loses.

Right.

O_o

Depends on the character ;P Not all of them have spikes

[Relambrien]

Originally Posted by Squeek

The quote unquote 'simplifying' of games these days isn't to level out the playing field. It's to embrace a new audience.

Game developers realized that marketing games solely to the 18-24 male demographic is a great way to lose money. When you can market the same game with minor tweaks to the 14-32 male/female demographic, you can sell double or triple sales of your game.

That was my point. And the 14-32 male/female range is primarily interested in social party games, not games with depth and complexity. My worry is that this could be the harbinger of a shift to decreasing depth and making the game have a relatively flat learning curve, in the interests of selling more games. And that would just make games boring for me.

[l2awr]

Originally Posted by Relambrien

That was my point. And the 14-32 male/female range is primarily interested in social party games, not games with depth and complexity. My worry is that this could be the harbinger of a shift to decreasing depth and making the game have a relatively flat learning curve, in the interests of selling more games. And that would just make games boring for me.

Ya that would be lame. We always have Blizzard though =] Best game designers everrrrrrr

[MrGiggles]

I've been trying out Pikachu's QAC. It'a a lot of fun to do. Just zipping around smacking people until they get the picture and start raping you into the ground wtf D:

To be fair, it's probably because I wasn't even trying to use it in moderation that I got punished so much. It was essentially my one and only attack for a few matches.

Blizzard

I prefer Valve. Or maybe Nintendo.

[Squeek]

I personally like 0 of Blizzard's games.

I don't like Starcraft, I don't like Warcraft, I don't like Diablo, and I don't like WoW.

Nintendo tops the list for me, with Namco/Bandai coming in 2nd and Atlus in 3rd.

[korny]

Best strategies so far for a game that has just came out.

[zidart]

anyway not all the strategies are perfect, if you use a PERFECT STRATEGY over and over again someone is going to find out how to avoid/block or get around it.

and since i'm lazy i will answer to "how do you know" question from the other thread.

simple i know because unless you have played every player in the world you can't be sure that there's not a link nor a sonic out there that can beat you.

[Silvuh]

Uh. The computers in Brawl are harder than those in Melee. I was playing at a Best Buy earlier today, and I laughed when the computers tried to run for the Smash Ball. It was on the opposite side of a line you couldn't pass through on Pictochat. The level 7 computers just ran right in to the wall towards the smash ball. Heh.

Ninja Edit: If someone finds a flaw in a perfect strategy, it is no longer perfect.

[Silvuh]

I stepped the Target Smash music just for fun. I may upload it to the database after I complete more difficulties and such.

Post-clean up note: this was not a double post at the time.

[Kamunt]

Originally Posted by Silvuh

I stepped the Target Smash music just for fun. I may upload it to the database after I complete more difficulties and such.

Do want. Comment on my wall or..something when you get it up, I wanna play.