God.

[Cavernio]

OP: God.

Post 181: Hitler.

[Kilroy_x]

[marxandlennon]

Originally Posted by devonin

I'm assuming that before you claim that you are displaying the unadorned and original texts of these documents, you explain the english quotes from the koran as the result of your own exhaustive translation work? I'm no muslim scholar, but my information comes from someone who is, someone who is happy to speak at length about his anger and disgust at how what he considers to be the most beautiful piece of writing in existance has been deliberately misinterpreted and cast to support what he certainly seems to have felt were corruptions of the original purpose.


As for Christianity specifically, there is ample evidence that at the very beginning of the faith existing, women had a very important, integral and -equal- role in the running of the burgeoning church. It wasn't until several years had passed, and it looked as though the second coming might not actually be within the lifetimes of Jesus' contemporaries that the old patriarchal methods started to reassert themselves.

So um...yes, it is -precisely- church and dogma.

First of all, you're right, I can't translate Arabic, however, that version of the Koran is the one translated by M. H. Shakir, available from the University of Michigan. Happy?

Secondly, I'm not saying that the early views of the writers of the Koran and the Bible weren't distorted over time. Of course they were. I'm merely pointing out that the basis for the church and the dogma came from the faith and the doctrine. I also ask you to recognize the reality of the situation, which is that, currently, the major religions of the world aren't very friendly towards women, Islam especially. This situation has changed slowly over time, but religion is still very much patriarchal in nature.

[devonin]

When a faith is corrupted by a church, that is not a failing the the faith, it is a failing of the church, and you ought not to condemn the faith because of it. That's all I'm saying.

[marxandlennon]

Originally Posted by devonin

When a faith is corrupted by a church, that is not a failing the the faith, it is a failing of the church, and you ought not to condemn the faith because of it. That's all I'm saying.

While there's certainly been no shortage of failings on the part of organized faith, there are certain aspects of religions themselves that have been morally repulsive from the very beginning, and this is not something these religions should get a free pass for.

[devonin]

organized faith

You mean church? In that church is what you call organized faith.

[marxandlennon]

Originally Posted by devonin

You mean church? In that church is what you call organized faith.

yeah.

[Cavernio]

I'm stepping into this without reading anything more that's been on this page, but I certainly find the most freaky religious people to be the ones who simply call themselves 'Christians', who follow no denominations, and who purposefully shun dogma since one of Jesus' purposes was to denounce it (or so is claimed.) I've little experience with other religions. They're the people who appear to have made the Christian Party, or whatever it's called, a political party set on running Canada through God's word.
Please please please though, don't assume I think poorly of you just because you're part of this group of people. I think I claimed this same thing once to a co-worker who I liked (err, not 'liked' liked, just thought was a good person, nothing distasteful, etc), who I then found out had made a decent life for herself largely from deciding to be a born again Christian. I felt like a jerk.

[trillobyite]

Originally Posted by Kilroy_x

OK. That's friggin hilarious. I laughed my butt off for like, 2 minutes. Sorry for being off-topic.

[ljw5021]

Originally Posted by hayatewillown

The following below is NOT written by me. It is written by my cousin:

I've been doing some thinking and I believe I have finally figured out the huge mystery without using resources such as the Bible. There is in fact a God, and doesn't take intellect to figure that out just common sense. You may also look to scientific proof that proves he exist. Einstein clearly stated that the universe had 3 very real and important factors; Space, Time, and Matter. All three make up our universe. So let's take a closer look at Time. Time has been around since the birth of our universe and is the most important factor of our lives and existence. God created the universe and since the universe requires time as a factor it clearly means that God created Time when he created our universe. So that answers the big question of "well how was God created or has he been around forever?" God was never created and has been around longer that our mind can comprehend, since there was no Time before the universe, he never had an origin, he was always here as a celestial body with infinite wisdom and power. So that answers our question of his existence. So let's move on to "which God is he?" Well many religions have many gods but only a few such as Christianity, Judaism, and Islamic have the "one God." Now let's take this idea of the books of the two religions, there is "The Bible" for Christians there is the "Qur'an" for Muslims, and there is the "Torah" for the Jewish. They all refer to there being the "one God," Christianity refers our savior as Jesus Christ, the Muslims believe it's the prophet Muhammad, and to the Jews their "Messiah" has yet to arrive. This choice here is for you to make and your's to make alone. Also for those still having trouble with believing if God thinking, "Well it still doesn't make sense." Think of it like this, "we are all little birds in a big cage and the cage represents our mind. God will play as the bird keeper, and thus since we are birds in a cage "our mind" we can only travel so far, however God "the bird keeper" can open the cage "our mind" and set us free. I hope this has helped you out perhaps find a new way in life. Thanks for your time, and God Bless.

The thing is, if you comprehend and believe the concepts behind string theory and higher dimensions, you would know that a God figure was at no time required for the apparent start of our universe.

[gothdolly]

I'm just going to say something without even reading most of the stuff on this page. But, if you look at the bible, it says the first people were Adam and Eve. But where in the bible is the dinosaurs and the cave people and evolution? Does that meen Adam and Eve were cave people? Eh.... well I probably don't know what I'm talking about so if someone could answer that for me, that would make me happy.

[devonin]

Originally Posted by ljw5021

The thing is, if you comprehend and believe the concepts behind string theory and higher dimensions, you would know that a God figure was at no time required for the apparent start of our universe.

[Kilroy_x]

It implies a lot of changes have to be made in Mathematical models. Then the new mathematical models, if they yield results, reveal the truth of the theory. It's kind of silly to tackle scientific questions as if they have some greater meaning-of-life type meaning behind them, because they don't necessarily. Let's look at Atomism. The final nail in the coffin of the opposition movement was a paper about the minute vibrations of bacteria which couldn't be explained by Brownian motion. Not exactly the most exciting thing in the world, but if you actually think about it for a second or two you realize there are very dramatic implications.

The deal is with superstring theory that since science has already begun to reduce the physical world down to components, it is no longer shocking when people suggest in theory that the world isn't quite as whole or solid as conventional wisdom indicates.

[Artic_counter]

Every things and there is no exception is made with Atoms or/and other unknown elements. Einsten prove that when atoms were moved they could cause a reaction. If the universe started with 1 atom and multiplied him self the 2 atoms would probably cause a reaction and create something this something would mutiply again and again making many posibility of reaction. Then that could have create the universe. The Big Bang would be like a long chain of reaction like the atomic bomb but in a lot way bigger. The atoms of the universe would now multiply and make reaction. In fact, there is a possibility that the Creator most known by the name of God is in fact the first atom of all.

This is my theory.

[devonin]

Every things and there is no exception is made with Atoms or/and other unknown elements.

Except that if you chuck an atom at another atom fast enough, they break open and all kinds of other smaller crap comes flying out. Also, atoms aren't elements.

[Artic_counter]

Originally Posted by devonin

Except that if you chuck an atom at another atom fast enough, they break open and all kinds of other smaller crap comes flying out. Also, atoms aren't elements.

I know that but there migth be element that are part of things and there is also atoms. These are 2 things really different.It's not the same thing.

[hayatewillown]

Atoms make up elements, so they can't be elements. You guys are getting a bit off topic.

Also, I have told puretexanblood this:
I do not believe in Creationism, I believe that god did create the earth, but in such a way that he influenced the big bang to create us all.

So stop being pricks and trying to disprove god. I don't want to hear it. I posted this to see what you guys thought about the theory. I don't like seeing little A**holes trying to disprove it. You just don't like it because it's not what you think. Big deal. It's a great theory to prove it, so stop "trying" to disprove it.

[Artic_counter]

Originally Posted by hayatewillown

Atoms make up elements, so they can't be elements. You guys are getting a bit off topic.

Also, I have told puretexanblood this:
I do not believe in Creationism, I believe that god did create the earth, but in such a way that he influenced the big bang to create us all.

So stop being pricks and trying to disprove god. I don't want to hear it. I posted this to see what you guys thought about the theory. I don't like seeing little A**holes trying to disprove it. You just don't like it because it's not what you think. Big deal. It's a great theory to prove it, so stop "trying" to disprove it.

In this forum, we only give our theory and no one have the rigth to decide if it's true or not. We are here to ask question, submit our way of thinking and to help us understand what's around us. All we are saying here is our theory and vote on the most probable theory but we don't know the truth. Yours might be rigth but no one have a proof.

[devonin]

Originally Posted by hayatewillown

Also, I have told puretexanblood this:
I do not believe in Creationism, I believe that god did create the earth, but in such a way that he influenced the big bang to create us all.

"I don't believe in creationism, I just believe that a superior powerful being created everything..." I see some issues with this logic, my friend.

So stop being pricks and trying to disprove god.

Well, telling someone that they are not -allowed- to try and hold a position is both incredibly arrogant and (I'm pretty sure) against the rules of this forum. If people's attempts to disprove god are so ineffective and pathetic, you should have no problem countering their claims with evidence of your own.

I don't want to hear it.

Then don't ask people for their opinions if you are going to bitch and moan when their opinion differs from yours. Welcome to Critical Thinking.

I posted this to see what you guys thought about the theory. I don't like seeing little A**holes trying to disprove it.

They are telling you what they think about the theory. They think the theory is incorrect and are taking steps to support that disagreement. You get what you asked for, and you asked for opinions, not "opinions as long as you completely agree with me." Welcome to Critical Thinking.

You just don't like it because it's not what you think.

No, it isn't what we think because we think it isn't true, and are happy to provide evidence to support that claim. Your job, then is to provide evidence in support of your claim, and to disprove evidence that we present for our claims. Welcome to Critical Thinking.

Big deal.

It's a big enough deal that there's an entire sub-forum on this website specifically for trying to prove and disprove stated stances. Welcome to Critical Thinking.

It's a great theory to prove it, so stop "trying" to disprove it.

It's a theory. Whether it is a great theory depends entirely on the ability of critical thinkers to point out flaws in the theory, and the ability of the person espousing the theory to defend against objections, and offer counter-points to them. Since your method of doing so appears to be telling us that we -aren't allowed- to disagree with you, or that we are a**holes because we disagree with you, I know which side of -that- particular fence I'm on.

[hayatewillown]

I'm just here to argue, lol.