06-9-2007, 09:29 PM | #101 | ||
Very Grave Indeed
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Re: President Bush
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One of the largest criticisms from the UN about the American actions in Iraq was their complete inabilty to forge a reasonable link between Saudi and Egyptian terrorists who carried out the attack, and Iraq. (As a humourous aside, a political cartoon printed during the time America was trying to convince the UN to give its blessing to military actions in Iraq depicted Colin Powell standing in front of a display board with the words "Al-Qaeda" and "Iraq" on it, with the Q in each word circled, and the caption "And you can clearly see the connection between the two groups") Bin Laden and Hussein were commonly on the record as dispising each other to the point of encouraging hostile actions against each other's organisations. Hussein thought that Al-Qaeda were ignorant, picking fights against entirely the wrong targets, and Bin Laden felt that Iraq was basically a lapdog of the United States, for the degree to which western culture had infiltrated the country. (This is, incidentally from -US Government- released tapes and videos coming from Bin Laden, and other high up members of both Al-Qaeda and Iraq) Quote:
I'm sorry but I fail to see how a group of people working for -years- with dozens of people on the inside working to bring this about managing to hijack three planes, take down a building, and kill a few thousand civilians out of the 300 million people living in America constitutes a threat on the order of "We must obliterate them from the earth or they will destory us outright, and any amount of civilian death and damage is well worth it" Nobody in their right mind would take a nuclear strike against a country that possesses enough nuclear weapons to destory all life on earth a few dozen times. And if you want to argue instead that these people are just not in their right mind, do you really think that overthrowing the government in a country that -at most- didn't actively seek out and destory that organisation is going to let that stop them in the slightest? |
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06-9-2007, 11:43 PM | #102 | ||
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Re: President Bush
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And God forbid just one tiny terrorist organization get their hands on a nuclear weapon.
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06-9-2007, 11:50 PM | #103 |
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Re: President Bush
Edit: Sorry for the double post...
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06-10-2007, 12:18 AM | #104 | |
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Re: President Bush
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I'd love to see Bush extend his war on terror into Belfast, but somehow I doubt that will be happening any time soon. |
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06-10-2007, 11:36 AM | #105 |
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Re: President Bush
The organizations behind and claiming responsibility for many of the bombings or instances I listed are extremely anti-American and are a considerable threat if you ask me.
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06-10-2007, 11:44 AM | #106 |
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Re: President Bush
Fair enough, I'm pretty sure that none of those organizations are called "Iraq" though.
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06-12-2007, 04:20 PM | #107 |
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Re: President Bush
I just want to update my position. I was thinking that if Kurds were given more power than the Sunni and Shia states, Iran would, already having its agents operating in the area and providing funding (specifically to cause instability- Iran has hated Iraq for centuries), be able to completely take over two thirds of Iraq and create a pseudo "greater Iran". I would think this can be counterbalanced with a heavily armed Kurdistan, but its border would be right next to Turkey- and the Turks hate the Kurds AND the persians. Considering a UN force in the area is worthless (Hezbollah rearms under their nose in the Israel-Lebanon border and they packed up and left at request of Nasser before the 67 war in the Egypt-Israel border), I really can't think of a good idea.
I think everyone is just ****ed.
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06-16-2007, 09:46 PM | #108 | |
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Re: President Bush
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06-16-2007, 10:56 PM | #109 | |
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Re: President Bush
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The Middle East is already characterized by civil war (In Gaza and the Palestinian territories right now, in Lebanon there were clashes between Christians and Muslims, as well as the Lebanese army vs Fatah el-islam, and Iraq is in a state of civil war, pretty much), genocide (Black September- Jordanians massacred thousands of Palestinians, Saddam had gassed Kurds [which is why I have a personal hatred of Saddam]), crime (well, maybe not so much petty crime due to harsh punishments, but looting and rioting is common), and war (Iran-Iraq War is only one example of over 100000 dead, and of course the intifadahs). If it were up to me, the USA should fund ANYONE willing to build infrastructure, and maintain at the very least, luke-warm relations with the West, and strengthen them (and, as devonin helped point out, should have a decent human rights record for the people in its own country). This means Israel, this means a Kurdish state, this means the UAE (though they don't need help), Egypt (Second largest recipient of US foreign aid), possibly Jordan (The king of jordan is pretty moderate and I respect him, but the country is piss-poor) and Qatar (The USA has built universities there). Iraq should be abandoned. But then that leads to what I said above, since Turks would never allow an independent Kurdistan on their border.
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06-16-2007, 11:00 PM | #110 | |
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Re: President Bush
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06-16-2007, 11:08 PM | #111 |
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Re: President Bush
trillobyte, I find it interesting that one of your stronger examples of what is wrong with the middle east is the leadership practice of the saudis to wit: "The reason so many people there suffer is because oil money goes to make the Saudi family richer and fund terrorism through the back door."
And yet Saudi Arabia is one of the countries with the -best- relations with the west, one of the greatest desires to build infrastructure, both of which were requirements for you to want to see the US support them. I'm just curious how you can reconcile the United States blatanly backing a country that you seem to feel is very indicative of all the problems facing the middle east. |
06-16-2007, 11:25 PM | #112 | |
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Re: President Bush
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Hold up Turkey as the example: A secular, democratic Muslim-majority nation. A good example, remaining so due to economic benefits, namely, those Turkey would get if allowed to join the EU. We need more Turkeys, and the only way to do that is economicaly. All the bombs in the world won't help us achieve that.
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"I'm all in favor of keeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of fools. Let's start with typewriters." - Frank Lloyd Wright Last edited by marxandlennon; 06-16-2007 at 11:29 PM.. |
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06-16-2007, 11:51 PM | #113 | |
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Re: President Bush
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First of all. Yes. It is defending itself. Unless you have had actual experience out in the field, your data, given by the community and media, is invalid. The community is not always right, and hell, definitely not the media. If we stop attacking, then other countries will find out that we are being little wimps, and attack us, even if we are interfering with a "holy war". It is defending itself. Just because you have a "smart" choice of words, doesn't mean that you are smart, or that it still makes sense. How the hell would a terrorist group attack evil people? Could you please be more freaking specific? You mean to them, we are being infidels, right? And that term, the way they use it, is anyone that does not believe what they believe, and I right? So the terrorists that reside in Iraq, who were already involved in a "holy war", decide to attack us. Funny enough, the terrorists, who are based on Palestinians and Islams. Imagine that. Underline Palestinians for me please, when you reply with a good answer. Anyways, the Palestinians are basically the "bad guys", and the Israelites are the "good guys". This is because the Palestinians and the Muslims were mostly terrorist groups, and the Palestinians are destined to fight over the land. This is why we are on the Israelites side, and why we are sending our troops to war. Including the fact that we were BOMBED! Hundreds of people died! Do you know what thats called? MASS GRAVES! Quit thinking that " That was you know, a few years ago! " . Too bad. We get bombed, America needs to get it's ass in gear and kill some freaking terrorists. Since the terrorist groups resided in Iraq, who also belonged to the Palestinians, and since the Israelites are our friend, we are helping the Israelites. We are also eliminating the terrorists. P.S: Quit posting your crappy reasons for pulling out or to help fight in the war! I doubt It would work!
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06-17-2007, 12:13 AM | #114 | |||||||||
Very Grave Indeed
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Re: President Bush
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Also...how is invading Iraq, toppling its leader, doing nothing but encourage -more- terrorists and anti-American sentiment, and slowly reducing the cradle of civilization to rubble helping Israel?! Israel's problems have not one damn thing to do with Iraq. Quote:
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06-17-2007, 12:24 AM | #115 |
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Re: President Bush
My, so interested in this "President Bush" Thread are we?Seriously though, he has less than 2 years left.
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06-17-2007, 12:32 AM | #116 |
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Re: President Bush
Ho-crap I mean suicidal pilots sorry. Not bombers.
Any yes Devonin, I did have a first hand experience out in the field. I believe I know what I am talking about. The question is, do you?
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06-17-2007, 05:07 AM | #117 |
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Re: President Bush
First hand experience as a terrorist? You told me that I wasn't allowed to question or have an opinion on American Military actions in Iraq unless I was taking part in American Military actions in Iraq. So holding you to your own standard, your opinion on a terrorist response to an American withdrawl from Iraq woudl require you to have experience as a terrorist in order to be able to have an opinion.
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06-17-2007, 10:06 AM | #118 | |
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Re: President Bush
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And I can hold an opinion if I did, but you cannot ask me what field I'm in. That would be breaking a law here in America.
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Last edited by hayatewillown; 06-17-2007 at 10:09 AM.. |
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06-17-2007, 10:58 AM | #119 | |||
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Re: President Bush
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The Iraqis may sympathize strongly with the Palestinian cause, but the ones firing at US troops there are NOT Palestinian, have no relation with them at all, and certainly don't receive funding from them! They receive funding from Syria and Iran, Iran because it would prefer to see the region destabilized, and Syria is a very anti-US country. People from all surrounding nationalities, including Jordan and even as far as Somalia in Africa, join the attacks on US troops and ESPECIALLY Iraqi guards and police who literally have done nothing wrong. If you watch any interview with captured terrorists, they couldn't care less whether they killed an American or an Iraqi policeman. These people aren't "defending" anyone. You're making the very, very flawed assumption that all Islamic terrorist groups have some connection to the PLO or Palestinian cause, when that is not the case. They may all support them, but their individual objectives tend to differ in numerous ways. The Thai terrorists who want a theocratic state, the rebels in Northwest China, the Chechen anti-Russian terrorists, the Somalian terrorists at war with Ethiopia, the ones operating in Iraq targetting both US troops and either Sunni or Shia, whichever they hate, and hell the PKK are all terrorists of the same ideology that have no connection to the Palestinians. Also, if you read any statement by the Israeli government, they have determined that the situation in Iraq is in fact a detriment and not of any aid. There is now a haven for terrorists to operate, and modern gaza is becoming a microcosm of Iraq. Most of the people who believe the USA went to war for Israel also believe the Jews did 9/11. That stuff is bull****.
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06-17-2007, 02:04 PM | #120 | ||
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Re: President Bush
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Congratulations. In addition to making yourself look like an idiot, you just destroyed your credibility with a flimsy, half-baked lie. If what you said were true, you just revealed yourself to be involved in counterterrorism, breaking your so-called law.
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<img src="Bent Lines" /> Last edited by Kit-; 06-17-2007 at 02:07 PM.. |
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