Infinite Time/Matter/Space, Infinite Possibilities?

[Nightstar]

This is something I have been thinking about. IF(IF!) there is an infinite amount of space in our universe(s) and infinite time, and infinite matter, does that mean that, eventually, given enough time, EVERYTHING will happen? will there be an infinite amount of habited worlds on them, with aliens? Hell, an infinite amount of planets with humans on them? will their be planets of giant gaseous fruit people, with a slave race of harmonica-sock-monkey-dolphins?

Does having those 3 variables infinite mean that eventually, physics will be denied? will there be a planet with upside down gravity? etc.

Does having those 3 variables infinite mean that eventually, we will even all be brought back to life on an infinate amount of different planets, all with different characteristics? After I die, will I wake up on a planet with gaseous fruit people?

Planets with different time characteristics?
Planets that are inside out?

If you see where I am going with this, please reply with your thoughts. If not, tell me how crazy I am.

[UltimateSoul]

There is a theory that is similar to your's. It is known as the "Other Worlds" theory,rather than involving infinite time/space/matter it involves time travel and alternate universes. But since there is no easy way to prove this theory(or perhaps anyway to prove this theory short of time travel, which would of course require mass amounts of energy and precise calculations,)I remain skeptical about it.

[Thingy]

You dont have to worry about it.
Space is not infinite, and neither is matter.
Time on the other hand, i dont really know.

[Ice-Dragon]

No I don't think this is true. Some things simply have a 0% chance of happening so even over an infinite amount of time they will not happen. For example, you cannot deny that no matter how much time passes, on its simplest level 2+2 will always equal 4.

Also... if "everything happens" then eventually this scenario would have to come about: Everything is wiped out and nothing ever happens again. This would make everything happening not possible.

[IronMonk]

good call on the last post. another thing to think about is that time, as we generally understand it is not the river we percive it to be, more like dimention, left right forward back, so not an endless path. more like a container for events.

[peregrine]

Given those 3 infinites, there is a chance that "everything" could happen, but no certianty. (I could flip a coin til the end of time, but there's no garuntee I'll EVER get a heads, it just becomes more of a statistical probability).

Also, I don't think you'll ever have a "planet with upside down gravity" or any other setting where the laws of physics were different. Of course I could be wrong, but it would seem that physics would be constant no matter what the scenario.

(and btw.. if gravity repulsed instead of attracted, I doubt we'd have anything but quantums of matter bouncing all over the universe, it'd be impossible for atoms and molecules to exist, the repelling force of gravity at that proximity would most likely enough to force them apart..... and even so, a planet forms because of gravity's attraction, repulsive gravity wouldn't be able to condense matter into a nice little sphere of dirt and iron.)

And here's another variable to throw into the mix... you have infinite space, time and matter.... what about infinite universes? It could very well happen that gravity undoes the big bang and pulls all matter back into a single point again (aka "big crunch"). Then it big bangs again it all starts over...

Also, just cuz I feel like messing with your mind, let's throw in an infinite parallel universe/dimension factor too... just for kicks.

Even then, you would never have certianty.. just increasing probability of a certian scenario occuring.

[Omeganitros]

You know, if I could find the book, I would post Shel Silverstein's "What If?" right now.

[Nightstar]

Ultimatesoul- I know of that theory, its the one where the calculated the amount of possibilities of matter orientations in a universe. That is one hell of a number. They then said that eventually, their would HAVE to be a universe exactly like ours, and they then calculated the maximum distance to that universe. THOSE people are crazy.

Ice-Dragon- the 2+2=4 thing is exactly what I was talking about, there are physicist who honestly think that if you go far enough away, then 2+2 will not =4. They think that if you go far enough away, those universes will use different dimensions than ours, and hold none of the basic principles that make up our universe.

IronMonk- no kidding. heh. Time moves the same way as any other dimension. It is just out of the realm of human perception the same way the normal 3 are. Someone on this forum, I cannot remember who, said it very well. He said that if you want to meet someone somewhere, you tell them the streets its on(X,Y) and what floor(Z), and then tell them what time to meet(the forth dimension)

peregrine-it is easy to think that way, isnt it? if you flip infinite coins, forever, there is NO guarantee it will ever happen. But its forever. a real mind bender. I think that is one of those things that is just TOO vast for the human mind. About the gravity thing, like i said earlier in this post, there are those who think that basic newtonian physics would be gone that far away fron us. As for repulsive gravity, thats what dark energy is-90% of the universe as we know it. That is why matter is expanding at an ever increasing rate-there will be no big crunch in our 3 dimensions. Look up the brane theory. The infinite parallel universes thing is what Ultimatesoul was speaking of.

Anyways, this was just a fun, bs post to mess with minds. Don't take it to seriously, we will never know. or, will we?

[alainbryden]

by your same logic, if time is infinite, and you continue to divide a line in half for the continuity of time, will you ever end up with nothing? won't happen. By definition, if there's an infinite number of possibilities, they can never all happen, even if there's an infinite amount oif time in which they can happen, because that's how screwed up our concept of continuity is.

[DracIV]

Commenting on the earlier thing about reverse-gravity ruining atoms and molecules: gravity is the weakest force in the universe. On that level, gravity is practically less than a nothing in consideration of the forces. Atoms have their own force that is VERY strong and so even if gravity was reverse (which supposedly happens after a far enough distance between two objects) we would still have atoms and molecules and all that other fun stuff, just no black holes or other collections of matter in any large amount.

[UltimateSoul]

One of the things that I find very interesting about black holes and gravity is that despite the fact that light cannot escape a black hole, gravity can. (once again, the equation is far beyond my understanding,but I find it very interesting nonetheless)

[Nightstar]

DracIV - The reason gravity is the weakest force in the universe is interesting. It is because gravitons travel through 10 dimensions, where other comparable forces travel through only travel through 4.

UltimateSoul- uh... gravity is caused by the mass of a black hole, gravity does not have to escape from itself. That entire thought is backwards.

[IronMonk]

well writ night.

if you had a universe with backwards gravity all matter would be evenly distributed troughtout the universe. i cant remember the exact fgure but givent the mass we know of and the universe we know of it would be about a molicule ever cubic foot.

[deposition]

Originally Posted by Nightstar

gravitons travel through 10 dimensions

and what dimensions are those?

[UltimateSoul]

Nightstar - I found something on gravity and black holes, there's no equation, but here's the quote...
"Question 171: How can gavity escape a black hole?"
"This is a very difficult question to answer, becausewe need a better understanding of gravity.We think this better understandingwil happen once we have a fully quantum mechanical explanation for gravity,perhaps in terms of the elusive particles called gravitons.Then the answer will draw upon quantum mechanics for most of its explanation.
To explain how gravitons escape from a black hole in order to cause the gravitational field we see at great distances,quantum mechanics predicts that the event horizon is not an infinitely high energy barrier.The event horizon is just a regionthat has a particular gravitational potential.This can now be translated into a problem in quantum mechanics where you are asking what the penetration or tunneling probability is for quantum particles,such as gravitons and electrons.Outgoing quanta can therefore pass across the potential barrier at the spatial distance of the event horizon and tunnel across it.According to Heisenbergs uncertainty principle,the event horizon is poorly localizedand is just like any other energy barrier across which quantum mechanical can tunnnel,as through a leaky membrane.
There is another reason,and this draws upon a nonquantum mechanical feature of black holes.As seen from a great distance,black holes look as though all mass that went into them is still hovering on our side of the event horizon,thanks to reletivistic time-dilation effects.The gravitational field from this matter can,therefore,escape the black hole because the mass producing it is not yet inside the event horizon,as seen from our external vantage point."
OK... from what I got from this is that because the black hole has a standard energy barrier and "the mass producing the black hole is not inside the event horizon,"in other words nothing is holding it.
Btw, I got this quote from"The Astronomy Cafe" in case anyone wants know how I got this.

[alainbryden]

Originally Posted by deposition

and what dimensions are those?

pwnd

[Nightstar]

according to string theory(the leading theory of the universe, at the moment) there are many more dimentions that the 4 we percieve( X,Y,Z, and time). there are at least 11, maybe more. as far as i know, they dont have official names.

as for why gravity can escape a black hole... gravitons are not affected by other gravitons. gravity does not pull on other gravity, or if it does, it is rediculously weak, gravitons have no mass, and are weakened by their "tunneling" through the other dimensions, that they can't affect one another. light particles (photons) so not pull on one another either.

[themanwithsauce]

If the universe is truly infinite as some think, then everything can happen but if there is infinite space then there is infinite possibilities. However if sapce is limited then we will only find so much.

[alainbryden]

Read what other people are saying before you post. We got beyond that stupid argument in the second post.

And the string theory and additional dimentions are based on the fact that they can't find any other reasonable explanation for why there are so many DNA possibilities with so few structures. Not that it's a very reasonable theory anyways.

[Jessus]

i'm not completely sure whether i agree with the idea of everything having to occur if there are the three, or four noted variables being infinite.

however, if i were to agree with this, my thoughts would be that it would make more sense to say that everything must happen if time and mass are infinite and space IS finite.


think of it this way; if you have a 4x4 grid that is divided so that there are four spaces for a 1x1 square to occupy. assuming that the square is placed on a random space every so often, then it is very likely, yet not absolute, that the square will at one time have occupied all four spaces. that is to say that every possible event has occured. In this scenario, infinite time with finite space has made every potential happening possible.

however, lets say you were to increase that grid to hold an infinite number of 1x1 spaces for a square to occupy. no matter how many times a square changes spaces, even if it changed to a different one every single time, since space is infinite there would be no chance that the square could sometime have occupied every square.

so no, i dont think that with infinite space everything will occur, however if we don't in fact have infinite space then maybe this theory is plausible.

sorry for the terrible example, and i'm sure there are flaws in it when applied to the universe.