MrRubix Crowdpleaser format

[rayword45]

Is this format allowed for other songs? (Arrow keys + numpad used only as spread except during difficult parts A.K.A Trill)

I'd like to know because I know of one song which I can AAA entirely minus the beginning.

[Choofers]

you'll finish the song feeling like you cheated yourself somehow

[TC_Halogen]

Rubix didn't AAA Crowdpleaser that way. He did an overlay setup, giving him larger keys to turn the ridiculous 64th trill, to two split up 32nd trills.

For example, when I do Crowdpleaser, I use Shift/Z and +/Backspace, so that when I get to the left right trill, I can isolate each side's jacks and turn it into a trill.

Granted, you'll have to be able to jumptrill 250 BPM 16ths for a short time.

[rayword45]

http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/...d.php?t=110838

I don't exactly understand what Overlay is but he used LDUR setup.

[i love you]

Overlay setup just means that you are using two fingers on one key. Halogen basically just explained what he did to AAA Crowdpleaser. Personally though, I think that using the overlay setup is considered cheating however FFR is allowing it so technically it is "legit".

[justin_ator]

What you described is double setup and is frowned upon in most societies.

And yeh, what Halogen said. Rubix used multiple fingers on one key to hit those, not multiple keys.

[Plan_Bsk81127]

Overlay is for pussies

[rayword45]

Originally Posted by II ViRiZ II

He uses this technique that Tass allows on CP where he uses both hands on the index keys, and hits the left and right keys jumptrilling. So he does the 16th trill normal, 32nd trill normal, and then hit's the 64th vibratrill as a 32nd jumptrill pretty much. [can't exactly explain it too clear, hope it makes sense]

So yeah, it's like double setup without having to double setup, so it's considered legit. Though of course it's trickier than using DS because it's not that easy to trill on the same keys due to having to let go of the keys before hitting it with your other hand, and on top of that it's kinda awkward trilling with one hand right above the other like that or whatever, and then comming out of the trill into the up+down jump and whatnot, yeah. If you bother to learn it, it's very helpful, personally, I'm too lazy.

Found this.

[Emithith]

I thought overlay was a quick way to get banned.

[ScarletSky]

What's a "Crowd Pleaser"?

[Choofers]

whats a gig?

[TC_Halogen]

I have no shame in admitting that I can't do the trill legitimately. The problem with the that CP trill is that hitting a trill of that speed isn't possible with training (that is, hitting it with precision). The success rate of hitting that is retardedly low. I've FC'd the trill a few times because I actually can vibra-trill for a short period of time, but there's no way I'll hold an SDG on the file that way.

So, I had to find another option. I'm not trying to be good at vibra-trilling because the skill isn't important for FFR. One could try and use the Death Piano argument, but it too is possible to get into an overlay setup for that trill as well.

[richyrich55]

What's a legit AAA?

It's hitting every arrow perfectly without using cheap tricks to get a desired score. Don't be a pussy.

[Reincarnate]

Rubix, here.

And yes, overlay setup just means you're "overlaying" your hits on the same keys. I used the standard LDUR arrow keys but used four fingers on two buttons during the megatrill. It requires a decent flat-key keyboard, in my experience (I've tried it with thicker keys and they typically don't vibrate quite right with this setup).

It's considered legit because it isn't using additional buttons or inputs, but it may be considered "cheap" by some who think you should keep one finger per arrow and leave it be. Personally, I think it's a losing argument to try to argue that it's cheap -- hell, there's nothing stopping you from using two feet on one panel when playing DDR during, say, Can't Stop Falling In Love Speed Mix http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZsWct1ecjQ , and Madmatt uses overlay all the damn time in other ways http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQPTnEG8BMU . I've also seen some people use overlay setup for the final jacks of Max 300 (yes, even Yasu) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ARGEZ50J4s .

I had the trill isolated in its own file and I must have tried HUNDREDS of times to AAA it without overlay. It was hard enough just to FC it with a decent PA distribution, let alone AAA it. The success rate is just so low that it's not worth it, especially when you compound that difficulty with the time taken to reach the megatrill in the song, in addition to the fact that there are one or two tricky patterns that exist in the first half of the song. Not to mention "random" PA flubs here and there. IMO it basically becomes another "is the bar cheating?" argument. Obviously it's more impressive to do a song no-bar, but for some songs, it becomes infeasible for most people.

I don't know if anyone has AAA'd it without overlay yet, but if they have, that's a real achievement.

[richyrich55]

[hi19hi19]

In b4 hitting one key with different fingers is "cheating" as well.
Alternating index middle ring on one key like pianists do for repeating notes.

[qqwref]

Originally Posted by Reincarnate

I had the trill isolated in its own file and I must have tried HUNDREDS of times to AAA it without overlay. It was hard enough just to FC it with a decent PA distribution, let alone AAA it. The success rate is just so low that it's not worth it,

So you're saying... "It was too hard to do it legitimately, so I cheated." ;D

Dossar and Zeta have AAA'd the trill in isolation without overlay, but not the whole song - all the current AAAs are with overlay setup.


From my perspective, overlay setup on keyboard rhythm games IS cheating, but it's cheating that is allowed on FFR, because the admins have said so. And I guess it's acceptable in pad too - there are patterns out there that were specifically designed for overlay play. But I imagine if you hit the jacks in JHM with overlay (and the rest with spread) you'd be laughed out of the SM Scores Thread.

EDIT:

Originally Posted by subin

Like Rubix said, I also believe it's a losing argument:
- If overlay is considered cheating, I've been cheating on every song in the game.
- If overlay is considered cheating, everyone who has changed styles in the middle of a song has cheated the score (for example, indexing trills regardless of speed).

It's not quite the same. When you switch styles during a song, the key is that both styles are legitimate playstyles in and of themselves, so it's fine as long as you don't abuse the differences between the two to do something like double setup a down jack (as you said). The difference between that and overlay is that with overlay you are hitting a single jack pattern using two fingers on the same key. The kind of setup used to hit the trill would be considered cheating if you did something like it for the whole song, and so it's still cheating in combination with spread.

[Reincarnate]

qqwref: Uhhhh... did you not read the rest of the post? Most of the justification was in the nature of overlay setup itself. I *chose* to use overlay because no, I couldn't do it without overlay. But the point is it's not cheating. It's taking advantage of legitimate strategy.

Besides, this gets into the whole argument of why action X is legitimate here but not here, here, and here. "How a file was intended to be played" has its whole set of problems that you can't argue without invoking a lot of arbitrary hip-firing.

I mean, if I use overlay setup on JHM, so what? What about index on FOTBB? Is that cheating, too? Or should I be forced to use four-finger? Is only one playstyle allowed? Is it cheating to use the bar? Perhaps speedmods are cheating, too? Or how about mirror, changing a hard left-handed pattern to a right one? What about people who play three-finger like smartdude, who adjusts positions during songs constantly? Maybe it's cheating to use keyboard altogether -- DDR is a foot-game, after all, and FFR is merely a translation to a new medium. I mean, you can go anywhere with these types of arguments.

As far as I'm concerned, arguing that overlay setup is cheating is a lot like arguing against gay marriage (lol). There are no arguments you can really come up with and defend with any degree of strength without ultimately resorting to personal whining.

As long as you're playing FFR with four arrow keys and a set of human fingers, anything's fair game, as far as I'm concerned.

[smartdude1212]

I used to be primarily three-finger, but for a while now (since the 4th Official or so) I've been largely using spread. I'd say there are many benefits in being a hybrid player -- especially since you don't restrict yourself to one style of play or one method of hitting patterns. Back in my extreme-obsession days, I'd have a variety of ways of playing different harder songs. I'd convert from spread to 3-finger to what-have-you in order to hit one-hand trills or jumptrills or runningmen with ease (even though I could do them on spread, but with less reliability). Plus, when I still moderately utilized three-finger, I found that I had more speed as a result. My speed is utter shit now.

However, what I don't understand is how some people can view this as cheating. It's like saying that when you play DDR you must either strictly double-tap crossovers and spins or execute them as they flow with your feet -- otherwise, you clearly cheated.

As for the OP, just experiment with different playstyles, different keyboard setups, and different ways of hitting things. Eventually you'll find a rhythm that simultaneously makes patterns easier and improves your PA.

And, if it helps, my current keyboard setup is SDEF (in-game settings) and 2468 on the numpad (numlock on). Incidentally this setup allows my keyboard to register hands.

[~Zeta~]

I'll do it when I have a keyboard with lighter keys.