Diablo 3

[L.B.D.D]

okay but here's the thing

300 AR --> 900 AR is like a 20-30% mitigation

but

900 --> 1500 AR is not an additional 20-30%..

after 900, you hover at around 67~80% no matter how high you go, right?

[hi19hi19]

Originally Posted by Reach

Been thinking about this and I'm not sure it makes sense

I did the math and there are no diminished returns on AR. I don't think it matters at all how much of which you have, only the relative values you're able to get off gear.

Like, if your health is 100k and you have 300 AR, you have 50% mitigation. EHP = 200k, so the bonus per AR is 333.3

If you have 900 AR, you have 400k EHP, which is also exactly 333.3 bonus per AR.

I don't think it matters and I don't think there are any diminished returns.

Here's my reasoning:
You are correct in that there aren't diminishing returns on stacking DR. This is because, just using example numbers, +1% damage reduction at 50% damage reduction is twice as good as +1% damage reduction at 0% damage reduction but also twice as hard to get. This is basically what you found.

However there *are* diminishing returns on the marginal amount of DR provided by additional Armor and Resistance points. To use the above example, stacking a lot of one thing to get +1% damage reduction when you already have 50% from that stat is not as good as the +5% damage reduction you'd get if you put that item budget's worth of stats into the other stat that you have none of.

Optimizing the multiplicative nature of armor and magic resist is where the old 10/1 rule came from, but there's a lot of factors that complicate that such as Energy Armor and the % bonus from Paragon and I honestly haven't even looked at item budgets to see if all res is still worth 1/10 of armor per point in the expansion. You also have to remember that Wizards and Witch Doctors get a TON of all res just from intelligence stacking.

tl;dr use a spreadsheet and build what it says is optimal for EHP
For me, that's almost always armor.

[L.B.D.D]

almost done switching to earthquake + %fire spec

19% fire ammy
18% fire bracer
18% fire glove
15% fire chest
20% fire weapon

the only downside: i'm squishy as FUCK

but my smash crits for 60m+ now, and my earthquake ticks for 30-40 so it's all good

[NekoGon]

really sick man. plus if you reach 800 in a month toughness won't be much of a problem

WD pal switched to fetish build, and all of a sudden we can farm T2 rift easy now. rift boss melted in like 10 seconds-ish, crazy little buggers. Also realized how low dps lightning build is (very good crowd control, but that's all I do in T2). considering switching black hole to archon build.. haven't got a single Vyr's so far though

[L.B.D.D]

full archon rune set sounds really slick

good luck with the vyrs - i hope they boost set equip droprates..

haven't found a single earthquake glove nor pants in 400+ paragon

[Reach]

Originally Posted by L.B.D.D

okay but here's the thing

300 AR --> 900 AR is like a 20-30% mitigation

but

900 --> 1500 AR is not an additional 20-30%..

after 900, you hover at around 67~80% no matter how high you go, right?

No

300 -> 900 all other variables removed is 3x the EHP.

There are no diminished returns, 900-->1500 is 1.66x EHP

It looks deceiving but trust me, do the math out and you'll see that every single point you put into AR is worth exactly the same.


As for what you're saying Hi, yeah, I see what you mean now. You're definitely better off choosing one or the other, but not for the reason most people seem to think.

I don't even think it is worth thinking about though until your gear is nearly optimal.

[Izzy]

What does it take to get 50% damage reduction with AR? like 500? If there are no diminishing returns then 1000 AR would be 100% damage reduction.

[HalfStep]

50% to 75% Damage reduction is effectively 50% damage reduction.

Are you guys being real right now it's not fucking rocket surgery

[Reach]

Originally Posted by HalfStep

50% to 75% Damage reduction is effectively 50% damage reduction.

Are you guys being real right now it's not fucking rocket surgery

I was trying to put it nicely >_>

Fire build is coming together nicely. LOVE this build.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/S.../hero/30870634

Picked up some nice bracers and a triumvirate that...I couldn't really not use, so I opted out of mirrorball for the time being. Might switch back to it though if I can pick up one that actually rolls + 2 magic missiles instead of 1...

I'm guessing I can probably just roll CHC on my Andariels into fire damage and it will be better. Wish it was AS I'd be losing instead though.

Amulet and a few other pieces should be easy upgrades in the future. Was busting through a T3 rift earlier solo damn quickly.

[HalfStep]

My post is mostly aimed at Izzy lol, everything you said was correct.

[Izzy]

Originally Posted by HalfStep

50% to 75% Damage reduction is effectively 50% damage reduction.

Are you guys being real right now it's not fucking rocket surgery

That makes more sense, nobody has pointed it out that way. No need to be a dick.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/5837013965#14
Found a good explanation.

[MrGiggles]

I'm getting pretty close to 1.5k all-resist thanks to One with Everything being an absurdly excellent passive.

Still takes a millenia to kill things at t2, I need to start finding some %skill/%elemental damage to augment my paltry 250k sheet damage, preferably replacing some of the less useful AR rolls I have on a few pieces of equipment. I'm undecided on whether to go for a fire damage build (Vulcan Claw Kick, Inner fire, Mangle) or lightning build (Hands of Lightning, Scorpion Sting). Probably depends on what drops for me, although the ability to keep enemies stunned 9 out of every 10 seconds makes me hope I get lightning drops.

I rather hope I die soon, though. It's really hard and time-consuming to find gear that's 'better' once you hit the level cap, and I'm ready to roll a Crusader.

[hi19hi19]

Originally Posted by Reach

As for what you're saying Hi, yeah, I see what you mean now. You're definitely better off choosing one or the other, but not for the reason most people seem to think.

I don't even think it is worth thinking about though until your gear is nearly optimal.

Yeah, "diminishing returns" is kind of a misleading phrase because strictly speaking the marginal benefit of 1 point in either stat produces the same increased damage reduction no matter what value you start at.

I'd argue something like "diminishing relative returns" is better (is there a more elegant statistics/economics term for this?), but who the fuck knows what that means anyway

Basically to optimize damage reduction, you think of it as the product of a production function with Armor and Resistance as inputs, using item budget as their units. These effects are shifted along the axes by flat increases to the stat (I believe this functions mathematically the exact same way as the minimum consumption level in a Stone-Geary utility model, for example) and multiplicatively scaled by the item budget value of a point of each (which used to be 10-1) as well as any % modifiers you are using, like Energy Armor.
Then you graph the resulting production isoquants (indifference curves) and minimize to find the ideal amount of armor and resistance for your item budget.
Practically, this doesn't perfectly apply because item budget is not a completely divisible good. You are usually choosing between chunks of armor and all resistance, but this method will still tell you which of the two choices is better just from viewing the isoquants.

Anyway, a spreadsheet does all this for you.

[choof]

diminishing unimportant returns so we can make "dur" jokes

[MrGiggles]

RIP RZA

The power went out for half a second

Your move, atheists

[L.B.D.D]

rip .. .

[Reach]

Got a royal ring of grandeur tonight.

Awww yeah. Got a SoJ too so ...my body is ready for higher torments.

Sadly the set pieces I need are ...not coming :P

Other than blackthrones.

[hi19hi19]

Originally Posted by Reach

Got a royal ring of grandeur tonight.

Awww yeah. Got a SoJ too so ...my body is ready for higher torments.

Sadly the set pieces I need are ...not coming :P

Other than blackthrones.

wow im jelly

[L.B.D.D]

grats on your royal ring!

took me on average like 2 hours per royal ring (2-3 min/1 cache)
farmed 7 (SEVEN!!) royal rings before i got a trifecta one

still no SoJ with %elem + %crit chance or %fire one.. :c

[Reach]

7?

lmao.

There are guys that have opened over 1000 act 1 caches and haven't gotten one.

I consider myself pretty lucky. I haven't really opened many act 1 caches and almost never play on normal. Just got lucky. I hadn't actually gotten a legendary from caches for weeks. This was the first one in awhile.

It's only a difecta after reroll with decent int and a socket. Won't be farming for another one though...lol.