TWG XLI Hosting Singups

nijatwo · 01-21-2007, 03:16 PM

So yes, it's been a few days-

16 Players
4 Wolves
4 Elders
1 Guardian
7 Humans
Cardflipping

The goal is that at least 1 elder must be alive for the humans to win. The wolves only need 4 kills to win, but the humans have an oppertunity for a big alliance early on. It's open to wolf infiltration, but if played properly could be interesting. One idea was to change the cardflipping to red/not red (ie the wolves don't get any new information from the flip). It needs some minor revisions I'm sure, I've got no qualms with working on revisions.

*note: I would give preferrence to active players, but not "smart" players. If you have a problem playing with someone then you should sit the game out (or... talk to them! durhurhur). No whiners.

StoicRoivaS · 01-21-2007, 03:24 PM

Maybe you should explain what the elder's do, and if they're known to each others/themselves.

**talisman** · 01-21-2007, 05:28 PM

ooh, it will coincide with the super bowl.

nijatwo · 01-21-2007, 06:05 PM

Right, sorry. They've got no special abilities, and they will not know who the other ones are when the game starts right now, so they'll have to come up with a way to figure that out.

The other option (since the numbers apparently give the wolves a 2:1 advantage) is for the elders to know who they are. Thoughts?

**jwcgator** · 01-21-2007, 06:37 PM

That's a good idea, make them mason-elders.

If no one else decides to host, then nija's game will be fine.

rioting · 01-21-2007, 07:01 PM

I like the game concept. I have an idea that might help with balancing it. As suggested, cardflip should be red/green. However if an elder dies, the remaining elders are privately notified of how many total elders remain. So the elders are sort of like psychics but only for their group.

StoicRoivaS · 01-21-2007, 07:08 PM

Also, nija, please explain what is meant by a "big alliance". With no seer I don't exactly understand how you think players will safely ally with others. Another point of note is that with the elders needing to be present to win, this game could almost be looked at as 4 humans vs 4 wolves vs a bunch of meatbags. In this it seems that the wolves have nearly the same goal in mind whilst they know each other and the humans have a similarly difficult task while they don't know each other. Yes the guardian helps some, but with no confirming device, he doesn't help terribly much. With the brief amount of thought I've given it, it seems too hard for the humans. The small suggestions are nice, but my initial reaction says at least one more significant blue. Discuss.

nijatwo · 01-21-2007, 07:12 PM

If the blues all know who the other blues are, then there is a 5 human alliance early on. This could be enough to balance it against some obvious wolf advantages. One thing I thought would be interesting was a wolf claiming to be one of the blues (if they weren't informed of the other elder/masons).

Another suggestion I received was to assign the guardian on morning 1, since a lot of the game rides on him.

StoicRoivaS · 01-21-2007, 07:23 PM

You specifically said the elders wouldn't know each other and then you said they may to help with the balance and now you imply that not only do the elders know each other but they know the guardian as well and vice versa. Did I miss something here or did you make a decision and forget to announce it? A 5 person auto-alliance is big. It sounds like it would make it "too fair", i.e. human weighted. A happy medium would be nice. Maybe 2 pairs of elders that know each other or an elder+guard who know each other plus a 3 elder team that know each other; essentially leaving the possibility of faking wolves open instead of destroying it entirely with the 5 man auto alliance.

nijatwo · 01-21-2007, 07:43 PM

Sorry, I was unclear. I haven't had a name for the "elders" (if someone has a better name, hook me up), so I've been calling them blues. Another suggestion was to make the guardian a wolfsbane instead with the following rules: Cannot guard himself, Random wolf dies if successful guard occurs.

Honestly, I don't think it would make a difference for most of the game, but there are certain endgame situations where it could be a powerful asset to the humans.

Final Suggestion regarding wolfsbane:
Guardian AND wolfsbane in game, with 3 elders, but the wolfsbane is the other type- if they're attacked, a random wolf dies (rather than pick a person to guard every night). I haven't thought too much about this one, leaving it to you guys.

Options I see:
a)4 elders, no information given. Wolves can potentially fake it, but a big alliance can form early if it's played properly.

b)3 Elders, they know each other. No chance of a wolf fake (unless they know they kill 1 night 1, which is WAY unlikely), but wolves only need 3 kills to win.

c)Take away a wolf or add another blue role.

Stoic, I agree with what you said about "4 elders knowing each other" being TOO 'balanced'.

Breaking it into pairings is another idea, but I think it would work out the same way as either all elders knowing or all elders not knowing.

Personally, I think you people are smart enough to make 4 wolves, 4 elders, 1 guardian/wolfsbane, 7 humans pretty damn interesting for everyone.

Silver Metallic · 01-21-2007, 08:00 PM

Notify me of player signups and I'll try to get in.

nijatwo · 01-21-2007, 08:29 PM

player signups will be announced in the thread with about 24 hours notice. If you're too lazy to check, don't need to play.

StoicRoivaS · 01-21-2007, 09:01 PM

I'd say 2 groups of 2 elders who know each other plus a bane (of the guard any non-self person/random wolf killing type) sounds like the best combination of interesting and fair.

**iggymatrixcounter** · 01-21-2007, 09:09 PM

Make it easy on ourselves. Can't have a 5 person alliance on day one. Take out the guardian and cardflipping and have all 4 elders know who they are.

nijatwo · 01-21-2007, 09:19 PM

It's a thought, when you run the numbers on that last one though it's a HUGE numerical advantage to the wolves. maybe 3 wolves with the 4 elders and nothing else? I was going for simplicity in roles, not a big weeoweeoo

StoicRoivaS · 01-21-2007, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iggymatrixcounter

Make it easy on ourselves. Can't have a 5 person alliance on day one. Take out the guardian and cardflipping and have all 4 elders know who they are.

See my glorified analogy above. This is a very very bad idea.

**jwcgator** · 01-21-2007, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nijatwo

weeoweeoo

Quote:

Originally Posted by sertman

i swear the next person who says WEE OOO WEE OOO i'm going to slit their throat

Watch out for sertman, nija.

nijatwo · 01-21-2007, 10:37 PM

WEE OOO WEE OO WEE OO.

Going to polarize it a bit:
16 Players
4 Wolves
4 Elders (unknown to each other)
1 Wolfsbane
7 Humans
Red/Green Cardflipping
Wolfsbane cannot guard himself.

Other Option
16 Players
3 Wolves
4 Elders. Elders know each other
Red/Green Cardflipping
9 Humans

@Rioting, can you run the numbers on those when you find time?

DiscoBobbyPARANOiA · 01-21-2007, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwcgator

Watch out for sertman, nija.

Odd, I thought of sert's post when I read 'weeoweeo' also.

About the setup:

Pairs of elders + bane of ether type would be splendid, as far as I'm concerned.

A 4 person auto alliance is HUGE.

(In the previous sentence 'HUGE' can be replaced with 'way too powerful')

Mmm, cake.

I think that the game would be pretty alright like that, and I would definitely want to play it.

**jwcgator** · 01-21-2007, 10:48 PM

GAME 1:

I really want to see a game with more blues in it (with actual powers)

18 person game

4 wolves(1 master), 1 wolfsbane, 1 vigilante, 1 seer, 11 humans.

Wolfsbane guards someone but not himself. If he/she picks correctly a random wolf dies
Wolfsbane cannot protect from vigilante
If vigilante comes out before he kills someone then he is automatically killed.
Once the Vigilante kills someone, he turns into a regular human. He is also Seer'd green as the Vigilante.

Open to suggestions. Also, if this one is picked(revised or not) can someone else host it? I really want to play again lol.

01-21-2007, 03:16 PM	#1
nijatwo FFR Player Join Date: May 2006 Age: 36 Posts: 312	TWG XLI Hosting Singups So yes, it's been a few days- 16 Players 4 Wolves 4 Elders 1 Guardian 7 Humans Cardflipping The goal is that at least 1 elder must be alive for the humans to win. The wolves only need 4 kills to win, but the humans have an oppertunity for a big alliance early on. It's open to wolf infiltration, but if played properly could be interesting. One idea was to change the cardflipping to red/not red (ie the wolves don't get any new information from the flip). It needs some minor revisions I'm sure, I've got no qualms with working on revisions. *note: I would give preferrence to active players, but not "smart" players. If you have a problem playing with someone then you should sit the game out (or... talk to them! durhurhur). No whiners.

01-21-2007, 03:24 PM	#2
StoicRoivaS FFR Player Join Date: May 2006 Location: OC Age: 39 Posts: 548	Re: TWG XLI Hosting Singups Maybe you should explain what the elder's do, and if they're known to each others/themselves. __________________ Like the moon over the day, my genius and brawn are wasted on these fools. ~Haiku -Bowser

01-21-2007, 05:28 PM	#3
talisman Resident Penguin Join Date: May 2003 Age: 37 Posts: 4,598	Re: TWG XLI Hosting Singups ooh, it will coincide with the super bowl.

01-21-2007, 06:05 PM	#4
nijatwo FFR Player Join Date: May 2006 Age: 36 Posts: 312	Re: TWG XLI Hosting Singups Right, sorry. They've got no special abilities, and they will not know who the other ones are when the game starts right now, so they'll have to come up with a way to figure that out. The other option (since the numbers apparently give the wolves a 2:1 advantage) is for the elders to know who they are. Thoughts?

01-21-2007, 06:37 PM	#5
jwcgator RIP ffrtokens Join Date: May 2005 Location: Florida Posts: 2,220	Re: TWG XLI Hosting Singups That's a good idea, make them mason-elders. If no one else decides to host, then nija's game will be fine. __________________

01-21-2007, 07:01 PM	#6
rioting FFR Player Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: the lair of gates Age: 36 Posts: 113	Re: TWG XLI Hosting Singups I like the game concept. I have an idea that might help with balancing it. As suggested, cardflip should be red/green. However if an elder dies, the remaining elders are privately notified of how many total elders remain. So the elders are sort of like psychics but only for their group. __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Without irony, this signature wouldn't be funny.

01-21-2007, 07:08 PM	#7
StoicRoivaS FFR Player Join Date: May 2006 Location: OC Age: 39 Posts: 548	Re: TWG XLI Hosting Singups Also, nija, please explain what is meant by a "big alliance". With no seer I don't exactly understand how you think players will safely ally with others. Another point of note is that with the elders needing to be present to win, this game could almost be looked at as 4 humans vs 4 wolves vs a bunch of meatbags. In this it seems that the wolves have nearly the same goal in mind whilst they know each other and the humans have a similarly difficult task while they don't know each other. Yes the guardian helps some, but with no confirming device, he doesn't help terribly much. With the brief amount of thought I've given it, it seems too hard for the humans. The small suggestions are nice, but my initial reaction says at least one more significant blue. Discuss. __________________ Like the moon over the day, my genius and brawn are wasted on these fools. ~Haiku -Bowser

01-21-2007, 07:12 PM	#8
nijatwo FFR Player Join Date: May 2006 Age: 36 Posts: 312	Re: TWG XLI Hosting Singups If the blues all know who the other blues are, then there is a 5 human alliance early on. This could be enough to balance it against some obvious wolf advantages. One thing I thought would be interesting was a wolf claiming to be one of the blues (if they weren't informed of the other elder/masons). Another suggestion I received was to assign the guardian on morning 1, since a lot of the game rides on him.

01-21-2007, 07:23 PM	#9
StoicRoivaS FFR Player Join Date: May 2006 Location: OC Age: 39 Posts: 548	Re: TWG XLI Hosting Singups You specifically said the elders wouldn't know each other and then you said they may to help with the balance and now you imply that not only do the elders know each other but they know the guardian as well and vice versa. Did I miss something here or did you make a decision and forget to announce it? A 5 person auto-alliance is big. It sounds like it would make it "too fair", i.e. human weighted. A happy medium would be nice. Maybe 2 pairs of elders that know each other or an elder+guard who know each other plus a 3 elder team that know each other; essentially leaving the possibility of faking wolves open instead of destroying it entirely with the 5 man auto alliance. __________________ Like the moon over the day, my genius and brawn are wasted on these fools. ~Haiku -Bowser

01-21-2007, 07:43 PM	#10
nijatwo FFR Player Join Date: May 2006 Age: 36 Posts: 312	Re: TWG XLI Hosting Singups Sorry, I was unclear. I haven't had a name for the "elders" (if someone has a better name, hook me up), so I've been calling them blues. Another suggestion was to make the guardian a wolfsbane instead with the following rules: Cannot guard himself, Random wolf dies if successful guard occurs. Honestly, I don't think it would make a difference for most of the game, but there are certain endgame situations where it could be a powerful asset to the humans. Final Suggestion regarding wolfsbane: Guardian AND wolfsbane in game, with 3 elders, but the wolfsbane is the other type- if they're attacked, a random wolf dies (rather than pick a person to guard every night). I haven't thought too much about this one, leaving it to you guys. Options I see: a)4 elders, no information given. Wolves can potentially fake it, but a big alliance can form early if it's played properly. b)3 Elders, they know each other. No chance of a wolf fake (unless they know they kill 1 night 1, which is WAY unlikely), but wolves only need 3 kills to win. c)Take away a wolf or add another blue role. Stoic, I agree with what you said about "4 elders knowing each other" being TOO 'balanced'. Breaking it into pairings is another idea, but I think it would work out the same way as either all elders knowing or all elders not knowing. Personally, I think you people are smart enough to make 4 wolves, 4 elders, 1 guardian/wolfsbane, 7 humans pretty damn interesting for everyone.

01-21-2007, 08:00 PM	#11
Silver Metallic Banned Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Storming The Base Age: 31 Posts: 118	Re: TWG XLI Hosting Singups Notify me of player signups and I'll try to get in.

01-21-2007, 08:29 PM	#12
nijatwo FFR Player Join Date: May 2006 Age: 36 Posts: 312	Re: TWG XLI Hosting Singups player signups will be announced in the thread with about 24 hours notice. If you're too lazy to check, don't need to play.

01-21-2007, 09:01 PM	#13
StoicRoivaS FFR Player Join Date: May 2006 Location: OC Age: 39 Posts: 548	Re: TWG XLI Hosting Singups I'd say 2 groups of 2 elders who know each other plus a bane (of the guard any non-self person/random wolf killing type) sounds like the best combination of interesting and fair. __________________ Like the moon over the day, my genius and brawn are wasted on these fools. ~Haiku -Bowser

01-21-2007, 09:09 PM	#14
iggymatrixcounter FFR Veteran Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: OH Age: 37 Posts: 1,924	Re: TWG XLI Hosting Singups Make it easy on ourselves. Can't have a 5 person alliance on day one. Take out the guardian and cardflipping and have all 4 elders know who they are. __________________ lastfm PANDORA

01-21-2007, 09:19 PM	#15
nijatwo FFR Player Join Date: May 2006 Age: 36 Posts: 312	Re: TWG XLI Hosting Singups It's a thought, when you run the numbers on that last one though it's a HUGE numerical advantage to the wolves. maybe 3 wolves with the 4 elders and nothing else? I was going for simplicity in roles, not a big weeoweeoo

01-21-2007, 10:37 PM	#18
nijatwo FFR Player Join Date: May 2006 Age: 36 Posts: 312	Re: TWG XLI Hosting Singups WEE OOO WEE OO WEE OO. Going to polarize it a bit: 16 Players 4 Wolves 4 Elders (unknown to each other) 1 Wolfsbane 7 Humans Red/Green Cardflipping Wolfsbane cannot guard himself. Other Option 16 Players 3 Wolves 4 Elders. Elders know each other Red/Green Cardflipping 9 Humans @Rioting, can you run the numbers on those when you find time?

01-21-2007, 10:48 PM	#20
jwcgator RIP ffrtokens Join Date: May 2005 Location: Florida Posts: 2,220	Re: TWG XLI Hosting Singups GAME 1: I really want to see a game with more blues in it (with actual powers) 18 person game 4 wolves(1 master), 1 wolfsbane, 1 vigilante, 1 seer, 11 humans. Wolfsbane guards someone but not himself. If he/she picks correctly a random wolf dies Wolfsbane cannot protect from vigilante If vigilante comes out before he kills someone then he is automatically killed. Once the Vigilante kills someone, he turns into a regular human. He is also Seer'd green as the Vigilante. Open to suggestions. Also, if this one is picked(revised or not) can someone else host it? I really want to play again lol. __________________ Last edited by jwcgator; 01-21-2007 at 11:20 PM..

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