War: Is it worth it?

[devonin]

Or maybe they aren't even so vehemantly opposed to the concept of democratic government, so much as a culture that stands in opposition to almost everything their own culture stands for trying to force their beliefs on them.

[rzr]

Perhaps the best to hope for if America withdraws, is a Middle Eastern civil war. That sounds horrible, I know, but at least in that scenario they would be solving their problems on their own without Western involvement and would come to a solution all on their own. Like the American civil war. Now we as a country live in [moderate] civility and have resolved our conflicts without foreign help.

[devonin]

And since that's the -best- hope you can envision, and it will happen RIGHT AWAY if American withdraws, that suggests to me that you should start advocating for that withdrawl. If you can bring about the best case scenario right away, why would you try to stop it from happening?

[rzr]

Touche'

[Zythus]

This thread is now concluded.

Conclusion:

-It would be bad if US still occupied Iraq, but it would be evenly chaotic if they left.
-The Middle East needs a shakedown, its been accumulating for a time now.

[Rad3n]

Soldiers on both sides of a battle are the same in death.
They both want something better in the end but they both end up naked, blown to bits and washed up dead on the beach.

Australia is unique in being one of the only countries in the world to celebrate their biggest military defeat (with pride).

Australia's biggest military defeat was the battle of Gallipoli which ended in 1916.
Australia suffered 27,594 casualties... and only years later, Australia was allies with Turkey again.

Is war worth it?
Certainly not for those soldiers.

[Corbin Wells]

War has been obsolete since the invention of the telephone.

But putting the half kidding(yes HALF kidding) aside, we will always have war because power makes people crazy. It just does, it happens.

[Frozen Beat]

War is acceptable when it comes to wiping out unwanted people. Against eachother? Not worth the money, time, lives, and effort.

[dooey100]

Originally Posted by rzr

Perhaps the best to hope for if America withdraws, is a Middle Eastern civil war. That sounds horrible, I know, but at least in that scenario they would be solving their problems on their own without Western involvement and would come to a solution all on their own. Like the American civil war. Now we as a country live in [moderate] civility and have resolved our conflicts without foreign help.

I'm not sure that they could solve their problems on their own. Like Devonin said, these cultures are thousands of years old, yet still have conflicts. Civil war and separating countries separating would be more like ignoring the problem rather that solving it.

I do support countries/cultures solving their own problems when possible, though, I mean, we are doing pretty good, and we didn't have much help.

[rzr]

Yeah, but what's the worst that could happen? They wipe each other out entirely? Ok, well that's about 50% of the world's cultures gone, but a good chunk of violence too.

[purebloodtexan]

Originally Posted by Frozen Beat

War is acceptable when it comes to wiping out unwanted people.

So you essentially accept the actions of the Nazi regime in the Holocaust of 1939-1945?

Homosexuals are often persecuted. Should we wipe them out, too?

[devonin]

Originally Posted by rzr

Yeah, but what's the worst that could happen? They wipe each other out entirely? Ok, well that's about 50% of the world's cultures gone, but a good chunk of violence too.

You seriously think that if a bunch of nations decided to war on one another that a) they would wipe each other out [not the same as wiping out each other's armies] b) only involve themselves or that afterwards that would c) end violence at all?

I mean, theoretically the assassination of the Archduke Ferdinand should have caused a conflict between no more than just Austria-Hungary and Turkey, but instead we got a massive intercontinental war. These things never stay in the arena they start with, they always expand.

War is acceptable when it comes to wiping out unwanted people. Against eachother? Not worth the money, time, lives, and effort.

You appear to self contradict here. "War is acceptable when it comes to wiping out people" But also "Not worth it" to do war against "each other" which I assume you mean "Other humans"

I suppose the other thing you might be trying to say is "War against other countries is okay, civil war isn't"? But to that I'd suggest that if two factions in a country are sufficiently at odds with one another to go to war, that they probably shoudln't be considered one country in the first place.

[rzr]

The thing about that is, too many people's opinions differ on who is "unwanted" and who is "wanted".

[AquaTeen]

My english class recently had a discussion of one of the mottos of the Party Members in 1984 by George Orwell, War is Peace. The discussion was thought provoking. We came to the conclusion of sometimes you need war to gain peace. So in a sense war is necessary. We came to the conclusion that war is sometimes needed to gain peace because if you don't fight for a common cause more issues will come about. But if you have war and eventually come to terms with the issues you may gain peace.

[~kitty~]

All of these posts... tl;dr

Power corrupts humans, makes them violent and selfish; It doesn't matter who's president, this can't be stopped easily.

[devonin]

Don't tl;dr in this forum unless you'd like to stop being allowed to post in this forum. If you can't be bothered to read the thread before you post in it, don't post.

[~kitty~]

Originally Posted by devonin

Don't tl;dr in this forum unless you'd like to stop being allowed to post in this forum. If you can't be bothered to read the thread before you post in it, don't post.

I really just wanted to respond to the OP.

edit: my bad, maybe I shouldn't of said tl;dr in the first place, sorry.

[ballaw hare]

Originally Posted by ~kitty~

Power corrupts humans, makes them violent and selfish; It doesn't matter who's president, this can't be stopped easily.

Power doesn't "corrupt" humans, because humans are inherently "corrupt". If you don't teach a child not to steal, they'll steal. It's not just human nature, but nature itself. The only reason why humans are here is because of their ancestor's greed and selfishness. Humans don't just become "violent and selfish" because of some sort of political "power" they are given, they (we) are always like that. It is a very integral part of us.

Besides, political power is only as powerful as people will let them be. If no one is willing to obey two opposite General's order's to charge, then nothing happens.

[knuckles2224]

Is war worth it? Hm...
When U.S. had a crisis involving slaves. How did we settle it? With war. (I mean we tried to avoid war but in the end everything led to war) Who won? The north. What did the North get from winning the war. Rights. Freed slaves and etc. War is harsh but they fought for a reason. So war is worth it when it's for a good reason I guess.

[devonin]

Fun Fact: Many of the southern states were in the process of, or considering starting the process of abolishing slavery while the war was being fought. A proposed constitution for a United Confederate States was going to basically do that as well.