Trivium or JFAC?

[Verruckter]

Originally Posted by KH Luxord

Wikipedia definitely helps with defining band genres. Yeah, that is how I check what kind of metal a band is.

Go on Project Playlist - Job for a Cowboy and click the play button on Embedded.

First of all, click on the second one for Embedded (the one that says Artist Website), and listen to it from there. JFAC is a death metal band that has a really deep growling sound, with some of a black metal band element in it (high pitched shrieking vocals).

There are many other bands on Project Playlist, but the link that I gave you takes you to Job for a Cowboy's page.

As I Lay Dying isn't my favorite metal band, but they are ok.
As long as it is not death metal (pure) or black metal, I'm fine with it.

Pure Death Metal - Consists of low-pitched growled vocals, with heavily distorted guitars and singing much about death or a new world that comes out of the death of this world.

Black Metal (general) - Consists of high-pitched shrieking vocals, with extremely distorted guitars and bands of this genre are usually made up of one or two people. Black metal usually uses drum machines and guitar/bass machines rather than human drummers/guitarists/bassists. Black metal is different from any other genre because of the Satanic nature of the band and the lyrics. Some black metal bands (3 or more members) have been associated with church burnings, murders, and Satanic vandalism. One-man black metal bands usually are associated with public Satanic worshiping/preaching and arson.

So, don't listen to black metal. Death metal sucks, but it is better than black metal.

The best metal genres are Thrash Metal, Speed Metal, Heavy Metal, Metalcore, and Melodic Death Metal (Thrash Metal with distorted guitars).

Haha, Job for a Cowboy doesn't have anything of black metal. High pitched vocals don't mean much, because not all black metal bands have high pitched vocals.

Also, the Satanic things are just a few bands, really. Not many people have actually gone out and burnt down churches. And I don't see how that defines the genre.

I don't care what you say, Wikipedia is not a reliable source when it comes to music genres.

Again, all three bands you've listed so far are Metalcore over Thrash, death or whatever other genre you called them.

[KH Luxord]

Shut up.

Listen, JFAC is death metal. I'm talking about Black Metal bands like Gogoroth. They are one of the most Satanic bands ever known to man.

Once again, Trivium even considers themselves Thrash. Check out their MySpace.

[spinal_compression]

This thread is a fail.

You are comparing (or trying to compare) two completely different bands with different styles of music and different takes on their genre.


That being said I did enjoy JFAC more than Trivium. But then again that's just the kinda music I enjoy.

[Verruckter]

Originally Posted by KH Luxord

Shut up.

Listen, JFAC is death metal. I'm talking about Black Metal bands like Gogoroth. They are one of the most Satanic bands ever known to man.

Once again, Trivium even considers themselves Thrash. Check out their MySpace.

It's not because you say you play a certain genre that you actually do. Luca Turilli calls his side project "Symphonic Cosmic Metal", but it's just Symphonic Power metal.

I know what I'm talking about, man. Yes, Gorgoroth is a satanic Black Metal band, but as far as I know, they haven't burned down any churches. Some of the members have been to court for accusations of rape and kidnapping, but no crimes related directly to satanism.

[Lucifericrucifix]

Gorgoroth are more or less of a more recent wave of Black Metal, excluding their earlier material but they are certainly notorious for their criminal activity, or in the past..and the event in Poland, most notably.

As for Shasta, many say the same thing, and it's easier to of course at first. It takes a while I suppose to really notice the musicianship and melody in the heavier stuff I suppose. I remember when I first got into Death Metal or Metal in general, people all went, "Oh check out Cannibal Corpse!" and honestly to this day, I still think they are in no way appropriate for the "Death Metal Elite" as they seem to be deemed but, after a long time I realized that their compositions aren't horrible...I just personally don't like it so much. It's a trained ear, I suppose, or at least for many. I don't believe either of these bands are great examples of what the genre is though.

I figured JFAC had more prominent melodies than other bands..but I suppose it depends on what you listen to and how you identify with it. Trivium is bluntly put there, you can easily establish what is what, where as JFAC (At least on Genesis..) have a more technical feel.

As for metal styling, do not categorize a band based off vocal style, far too many people do it. That's how this annoying trend of people came to be and categorized everything they listen to as "Grindcore" despite the fact it was nothing more than modern crappy hardcore with "core" gutterals.

Let's not argue though...Music is what it is and if your looking for opinions on what people think and or feel about these two bands promote that, not this argument on what is what.

[Chromer]

Gorgoroth are pussies compared to Black Metal bands like Dimmu Borgir and others. Also, people in this thread who said they don't like Trivium for the screaming and muddled vocals don't know the real reason for it. Matt Heafy (Vocals) stated that the only reason he screamed in earlier LPs was because of his lack of musical abilities. He recently stated that he will no longer be screaming because he now has been practicing to sing instead of scream.

Go figure. :/

[ShastaTwist]

Originally Posted by Verruckter

I don't care what you say, Wikipedia is not a reliable source when it comes to music genres.

Wikipedia is not a reliable source for anything.

Originally Posted by Lucifericrucifix

As for Shasta, many say the same thing, and it's easier to of course at first. It takes a while I suppose to really notice the musicianship and melody in the heavier stuff I suppose.

It's really just a preference. I mean, I would listen to Job for a Cowboy just for kicks, but it's not really my style of music. Then again, I don't really have a style, I like a lot of different types of music, you just won't find most of it in my playlists.

[Verruckter]

Originally Posted by Chromer

Gorgoroth are pussies compared to Black Metal bands like Dimmu Borgir and others.

Hahaha WHAT? Are you kidding me? I really hope you're not serious.

[Lucifericrucifix]

Originally Posted by ShastaTwist

Wikipedia is not a reliable source for anything.



It's really just a preference. I mean, I would listen to Job for a Cowboy just for kicks, but it's not really my style of music. Then again, I don't really have a style, I like a lot of different types of music, you just won't find most of it in my playlists.

No doubt. Glad to see you remain objective though and your open...We need more people like that. Not specifically into metal, but music in general. Be open to it all, it's all unique, no?

As for the comment about Gorgoroth being "weak" (I'd rather not quote it..) in comparison to Dimmu Borgir, please, be a bit more specific about your words because if your using it in the slang/social context...Gorgoroth are anything but that, if anything superior in that way in comparison to Dimmu Borgir. Dimmu is merely a newer wave, which is in my opinion not as great as true Black Metal..but, there is something that is offered within each wave.

[BluE_MeaniE]

Originally Posted by KH Luxord

Pure Death Metal - Consists of low-pitched growled vocals, with heavily distorted guitars and singing much about death or a new world that comes out of the death of this world.

No. Death metal evolved out of thrash metal. It commonly has low-pitched growls, but that's not a genre-definer--it's just an earmark. Of course the guitars are distorted. And what they sing about is also not a genre-definer. Commonly, their lyrics have anti-Christian or gore themes. But that's just something that's common. I have no idea where you get this idea of a new world that comes out of the death of this world. I mean, what?

Black Metal (general) - Consists of high-pitched shrieking vocals, with extremely distorted guitars and bands of this genre are usually made up of one or two people. Black metal usually uses drum machines and guitar/bass machines rather than human drummers/guitarists/bassists. Black metal is different from any other genre because of the Satanic nature of the band and the lyrics. Some black metal bands (3 or more members) have been associated with church burnings, murders, and Satanic vandalism. One-man black metal bands usually are associated with public Satanic worshiping/preaching and arson.

Once again, the form of vocals doesn't define the genre. Once again, distorted guitars are kind of just obvious. Now, commonly, the production is a lot more trebly and "harsh", and if that's what you mean with extremely distorted guitars, then I can give you that one.

It's true that black metal really did grow out of anti-Christian (Judeo-Christianity, really) sentiments. And it's true it's commonly satanic. But death metal is plenty satanic too. Lots of thrash as well. Satanism itself doesn't separate black metal from other genres as if it's the only genre with satanism.

And where do you get the idea that one-man black metal bands do a lot of preaching?

So, don't listen to black metal. Death metal sucks, but it is better than black metal.

What? I mean, I guess if you had something against satanism or anti-Christianity, sure. But then that would apply to a very large portion of death metal too.

The best metal genres are Thrash Metal, Speed Metal, Heavy Metal, Metalcore, and Melodic Death Metal (Thrash Metal with distorted guitars).

Melodic death metal is thrash metal with distorted guitars? I mean, that just makes no sense.


EDITING: FINDING SOURCES

All right, well, I can't find any great sources right now. There are a few I've found that have some good lists, so I'll look a bit later.

Instead I just want to give a bit on why I think I'm right. It's important to note that these sort of things are objective facts. In other words, it's possible to be wrong. It's not "just an opinion." It's not something totally subjective. Now, don't get me wrong--because of that, it's certainly possible I could be the wrong one. The point is, someone is wrong.

So why do I think what I think is right? There are a couple different kinds of claims here: factual and definitional. The factual ones are easy. "Black metal bands usually have one or two people". Well, either that's true or not. I don't particularly know the answer. But if there are more black metal bands with more members, then there just are.

But note: calling them black metal to begin with is where we come to the definitional claims. What is considered death metal and what is considered black metal, etc., is just a definition. But it's been defined by a consensus of the elite.

They could have been hardly defined at all or in any random off-the-wall way. But they weren't. They also could have been defined by the absolute majority, but they weren't for an important reason: the elite know what the smeg they're talking about. Think about it. You don't define these genres by what the media calls them. They don't know what's going on. Well, guess what? Lots of other people--even fans--don't know what's going on as well.

So essentially, it's important that they're defined this way as much based on reason as possible. And they are.

[Verruckter]

IMO, the "definition" of Black or Death comes from actually listening to it. I wouldn't be able to describe with words how one sounds compared to the other, but I could easily differentiate them by simply listening to them.

Black metal has a much darker sound, and is usually related to noise metal/electronica. The distortion is not only extreme, it's full of noise and drones. Death metal wil focus on rythmic riffs, including (but not limited to) tremolo picking (Dark Tranquillity), whilst Black metal (not always) uses dissonance and noise as a way to add drive. The drumming isn't very different from one genre to another, although some Black metal will use exclusively blast beats (Immortal) and other a lot less if not none at all (Burzum), and Death metal tends to use more double bass drums (Amon Amarth, Dark Tranquillity). The vocals are very similar, although some Black metal bands will add a track of noise and lower the volume of the growlings to create a darker sound (Summoning).

[ShAiOnEi]

Melodic Death Metal for the win. Also these bands aren't metal in any way.

[KH Luxord]

Originally Posted by Darkest Hour

For some odd and stupid reason, people consider us melodic death metal just because of our heavy guitar riffs and our screaming. But if you pay attention to our lyrics, we aren't death metal at all. Compared to other bands, we can call ourselves thrash.

You see where Wikipedia gets their info from? They call Darkest Hour MDM, but they are actually more of TM. Their guitars are distorted of course, but they are as distorted as DM bands.

Originally Posted by Wikipedia

Job for a Cowboy's lyrics usually come out of a new world and an anti-Christian nature. JFAC sings of the death of this world and the birth of a new world.

So, I didn't say it.

Originally Posted by Wikipedia

Black metal bands are usually made up of one person, so they don't really perform live. BM bands like Gorgoroth make an image for themselves that separates black metal from all other genres of music. Also, black metal bands have been accused with arson, murder, and rape. Along with their criminal actions, black metal bands have been known to have lyrics of a Satanic nature. Bands like Gorgoroth have songs with lyrics that preach Satanism.

Basically, I just had to summarize what Wikipedia put on the black metal page. Gorgoroth has a Satanic look and wear the crucifix in a demonic manner (upside-down).

I didn't write the stuff, Wikipedia and DH did.

[Verruckter]

Here's a tip:

Wikipedia is NOT a reliable source for this kind of information

Stop using it.

Now:

Originally Posted by KH Luxord

You see where Wikipedia gets their info from? They call Darkest Hour MDM, but they are actually more of TM. Their guitars are distorted of course, but they are as distorted as DM bands.

Lyrics definately DON'T make a band a certain genre, nor the opposite.

So, I didn't say it.

Basically, I just had to summarize what Wikipedia put on the black metal page. Gorgoroth has a Satanic look and wear the crucifix in a demonic manner (upside-down).

I didn't write the stuff, Wikipedia and DH did.

I never said Gorgoroth wasn't Black metal...

[ShastaTwist]

Wikipedia is a manifestation of whatever the hell you want to put on it.

I could write that JFAC is a children's band and it would be posted for a bit.

[mead1]

I actually sort of like Trivium.

[KH Luxord]

Depends on which songs you listen to that are from Trivium. If you listen to songs from The Crusade, then you might not like them very much. If you listen to songs from Ascendancy, then you might like them.

[foilman8805]

voted for JFAC simply because Trivium has sold out. Ember to Inferno was amazing, Ascendancy less so, and i don't even remember the name of their last album...

in all honesty, these two bands represent nothing from the metal genre.

btw, i just purchased The Black Dahlia Murder's newest album, and i am oh so pleased. i would've voted BDM if they were on this poll, no doubt.

[commander_toast]

Trivium