Is it wrong to be gay?

[fido123]

Originally Posted by Emithith

The only wrong thing about being gay is that they FEATURE it almost. (<< My opinion, that's not "wrong")

Originally Posted by Emithith

it's almost a thing with gay people to talk off key or what ever that weird ass tone in their voice is. If they could just assimilate into the community like others and keep their sexuality to their bedchambers

The problem I find with your post is, as I've stated very recently (which I think you should refer to my posts in the past 2 pages) is most gays aren't like that. Just the ones you notice. If a gay guy wasn't acting like a flamboiant homo right in your face you probably wouldn't ever think he's gay. If you saw me I garentee you wouldn't even know. Also please try to understand that although for some I guess it is majorly a "sex" thing, but I would think for most including myself, being gay is just what kind of people you can develop an intimate emotional connection with. Honestly, your average straight guy probably has more of a sex drive than me. I want a relationship more than anything.

Originally Posted by Emithith

Also, I find in CTs that people like to challenge any posts you make instead of just using them as food for thought. It's kinda annoying. I know it's a discussion, but..

Don't you find it insightful to have other people's input on your opinion to perhaps refine your own? Take from people's experiances? Having an opinion but "getting annoyed" when people challenge or comment on it is probably a shitty and unrefined opinion. If you're going to take that stance I'd suggest you don't take your own opinions too seriously. I swear though I'm not this cold IRL lol.

Originally Posted by Emithith

Gay/Lesbian isn't wrong, it's just not productive in furthering our species through reproduction.

Does increasing our population really help us? As I stated before I think this is just ideology passed down from the 50's when it was your "CIVIC DUTY" to pump out as many kids as you could. There's a strong argument these days that population growth is a bad thing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_...osed_solutions

Originally Posted by flipsta_lombax

Nah, it's all good. I don't think anyone on a rhythm game site can think as complex as my argument

Sorry but you're sounding pretty condecending here as if you're opinion is right, we just don't understand it. I assume I'm mistaken taking from what I usually see from you? Also with regards to the rest of your post I understand, but that's a whole other argument. I just point out irrationalities in people's opinions, or what I believe to be mistruths (which I may be wrong about, which in that case I encourage people to set me straight). I'm not as black and white as I may seem in this thread, I just honestly have never seen a rational argument. I think capitalism is the greatest system we got, but I know there are a lot of great points towards communism. Who's right? Nobody because it's subjective. With this it's not quite the case though outside of a religious context.

Originally Posted by Cavernio

That said, I'm sure that if I were gay I'd probably try and act specifically not gay most of the time or something in an attempt to keep my own individual identity because I'm dumb like that.

I find acting like yourself not stupid at all. Acting like somebody else because you like vaginas attractive sounds pretty ****ing dumb to me.

[RubiedCross]

I feel like I'm repeating myself, but everyone here needs a reminder as to the definition of the words they are using. Let's look at some of these examples, shall we?

(PS Flipsta has touched upon this and I agree with him upon some points, I'm just simplifying the point he's trying to make. I'd just like to say that people can still act on their opinions, though. If your opinion, you believe, is correct, then you shouldn't have to worry about "incorrect" opinions once you provide your reasoning. If they don't listen to reasoning, that's a totally different story and is not a reason to, for lack of a better term, "hate" people with differing opinions.)

Opinion
This is where you make a statement that is not - I repeat, IS NOT - based on fact or reason. Opinions are subjective. They CAN NOT be proved or dispproven, because there is no definitive evidence. The example fido used is NOT an opinion; he made a statement that can be proven or dispproven. I will give an example of a statement.

Ex. "I find the color blue a very beautiful color"

Because I find the color blue beautiful does not mean you'll find it beautiful; that does not mean, however, that you can prove that it is not beautiful. This is an example of subjectivity. Now, this leads to my next point...

RIGHT or WRONG
Saying something is "Right" or "Wrong" is a completely SUBJECTIVE and OPINIONATED statement. Therefore, you can not prove that something is right or wrong. You just can't. You can get every single person in the world to agree that something is "right", but that does not make it right. It's subjective no matter how you look at it. Remember, I'm just defining this, not stating that you cannot state something is right or wrong. You just have to realize that you cannot prove it. You can, however, give reasons and try to persuade someone to agree with you.

Originally Posted by rushyrulz

We can pick and choose what we want to cite from the bible, but in the end I don't really care since there's often contradictions, for instance: "Quote" vs "Other Quote"

So I'm confused by the bible, and therefore won't use it as my guide seeing as I don't have any reason to believe what it says beyond trying to read and understand the bible (and I went to catholic school for 8 years). So without religion to fall back on, I turn to logic and science in an attempt to find answers for myself. I don't know maybe if I fail to find what I'm looking for with science and logic I'll turn elsewhere for answers as I mature.

Going to school does not mean that you studied the Bible. Until you have read it, studied it, and discerned it for yourself, you should not dismiss nor make up argument for or against it. What you should do, instead, is recognize that people will read and believe the Bible and that (if they are not merely lovers of opinion and what people tell them to believe) they have reason to believe what they believe. Whether you think it's stupid or not is irrelevant, and stating that people who use the Bible to determine what they believe are stupid is an example of bigotry itself. That is an another definition we should probably look at...

Bigotry
Bigotry is an intolerance towards people who hold different opinions than them. Here's something I really hope you guys can consider based on these definitions. To be intolerant of gays because someone believes that being homosexual is wrong is being a bigot; To be tolerant of gays and still believe that it is wrong is just holding an opinion. It works the other way as well! To be intolerant to those who believe being gay is wrong because you believe being gay is right, you're being a bigot; to tolerate them but understand they have a different opinion is just holding an opinion. The latter options of both of these represents a civilized stance between people which, once held, can lead to a discussion of why they believe what they believe.

For any newcomers to read this thread, READ PREVIOUS POSTS. If you want, just start at page 29 where I bumped the thread and read all posts from there, but PLEASE read previous posts. That will prevent tempers from flaring at trying to repeat the same points, and will hopefully add more to the thread than, well, just the same points over and over again.

Originally Posted by fido123

Don't you find it insightful to have other people's input on your opinion to perhaps refine your own? Take from people's experiances? Having an opinion but "getting annoyed" when people challenge or comment on it is probably a shitty and unrefined opinion. If you're going to take that stance I'd suggest you don't take your own opinions too seriously. I swear though I'm not this cold IRL lol.

This is a great point and I want to re-edify it. "Getting annoyed" means that someone is opposing what you believe, just like fido said. You learn that way. Just don't let your emotions get the best of you; if you have an opinion or statement, back it up with the why to it and the person who opposes what you say will learn as well. That's why we're all here... right?

Originally Posted by fido123

Does increasing our population really help us? As I stated before I think this is just ideology passed down from the 50's when it was your "CIVIC DUTY" to pump out as many kids as you could. There's a strong argument these days that population growth is a bad thing.

He seems to just be stating that scientifically homosexuality doesn't have a purpose other than pleasure, and that deals with the psychological realm. Whether population growth is a bad thing or not is something to be discussed somewhere else entirely and does not have anything to do with the fact that homosexuals are incapable of reproducing with other homosexuals.


This is all for now. I encourage this discussion and look forward to reading replies. Just try to think a little before you reply. This thread is the perfect place to discuss this idea within this community, people just have to adhere by the CT rules (i.e. the stickies that everyone reading what I'm saying right now should have already read).

[fido123]

For the intolerance thing, I don't have any tolerance for it just like how I don't have tolerance for racism. It's like saying "I'm cool with black people but they're totally a bunch of nigs". I have no place for an opinion on any matter that is not backed up with logic and rationality. Some people are just wrong. I leave it open that there may be a logical reason out there, except I havn't heard it. Also my comments are all said under the assumption that religion is false. I'm not saying it is, I'm just personally doubtful of it and ultimatly do not know, I just build my opinions off the assumption the Bible etc is false since I don't see any evidence to support its claims.

[Emithith]

Originally Posted by fido123

Does increasing our population really help us? As I stated before I think this is just ideology passed down from the 50's when it was your "CIVIC DUTY" to pump out as many kids as you could. There's a strong argument these days that population growth is a bad thing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_...osed_solutions

In Canada schools don't like Wikipedia if you are writing a report or an essay, j/s.

Having a friend that you know is female and not a lesbian would work better than people hooking up in clubs and jacking up the over the top population rate further by having sex for pleasure.

I think you overlooked this.

Also, I don't mind people "refining" my idea, and making it more logical, but some people literally attack others with their own idea. It's pretty stupid. -.-

[fido123]

I'm in Canada too actually ~2 hours away from you. Wikipedia isn't good for academic papers but I feel it serves it's purpose just fine on here. If you want ot back anything up you can always look it up yourself. And yeah sorry I guess I did =U

[Emithith]

Originally Posted by fido123

I'm in Canada too actually ~2 hours away from you. Wikipedia isn't good for academic papers but I feel it serves it's purpose just fine on here. If you want ot back anything up you can always look it up yourself. And yeah sorry I guess I did =U

lol I was just bringing that up to destroy that debate between you and mike or someone before that it's not a legitimate resource for info or something.

I also completely forgot that, too. lmao fellow Canadians COMBINE POWA!

[rushyrulz]

Originally Posted by RubiedCross

Going to school does not mean that you studied the Bible. Until you have read it, studied it, and discerned it for yourself, you should not dismiss nor make up argument for or against it.

I actually won my school's "Bible Bowl" which is basically a quiz of sorts about things from the bible, so I have read and studied a significant chunk. Do I know what it says? Yes. Do I know what it means? maybe, but then again does anyone fully understand the bible? Do I choose to believe the non-philosophical aspects of the bible? No, and the main reason I'm agnostic is because I constantly hear people 'talk the talk' but I have never seen anyone 'walk the walk' when it comes to religion, and until I do I will remain agnostic. But we're digressing from the topic of the thread by talking about religion.

I believe the consensual answer to the thread title, "Is it wrong to be gay?" is "no." since there's no more ChesterDaltons to argue against it anymore. This thread will most likely die back down again soon since we're pretty much beating a dead horse at this point.

[Emithith]

p.much. People have had their reasons for saying No it's not, but in the end, the answer is no. No use fighting over why your answer is better if you are agreeing in the longrun. xD