Ingame Song Information

[One Winged Angel]

I'm still confused as **** with respect to how songs are being ranked, but I've been submitting opinions based on how difficult I think the AAA is, considering most of the active FFR community can FC 95+% of the songs in-game without too much trouble

I still think hajnal's harder than SP/epi/rottel (and AIM too but they're two very different stepcharts so that's debatable) in terms of AAA'ability

[Vanilla Mnm]

Originally Posted by One Winged Angel

I'm still confused as **** with respect to how songs are being ranked, but I've been submitting opinions based on how difficult I think the AAA is, considering most of the active FFR community can FC 95+% of the songs in-game without too much trouble

I still think hajnal's harder than SP/epi/rottel (and AIM too but they're two very different stepcharts so that's debatable) in terms of AAA'ability

Well, you're one of the few that feel that way. I guarantee the majority of this site feels that AIM, SP, and Rottel are all harder. Epidermis is pretty debatable on which one is harder, but I still think Epidermis is a bit harder.

[leonid]

For me, it's SP > Hajnal > Rottel > Epidermis > AIM

[One Winged Angel]

also, just noticed that hajnal's like, the only song under 80 in difficulty on the tier points list to have '1 or fewer' as opposed to 'AAA' as the max req for the X/7s

I think that req was made for a reason lol

[Vanilla Mnm]

Originally Posted by One Winged Angel

also, just noticed that hajnal's like, the only song under 80 in difficulty on the tier points list to have '1 or fewer' as opposed to 'AAA' as the max req for the X/7s

I think that req was made for a reason lol

Hm, that's weird. Maybe it's just me that's good at it.

[foxfire667]

Originally Posted by foxfire667

As long as they keep these songs on the FMO list:
Lawn Wake I
Lawn Wake IV
Silence

Then it is alright with me.

Right after I said that...I go to the lists, and guess what? All of these songs (Except Lawn Wake I) are now listed as "Very Challenging". Ugh, I wonder if at one point...songs like Electro Rush x8 v2 and One Minute Waltz will be moved down in difficulty to like a "Very Challenging" or a "Challenging" because there are so many people that do beyond amazing on them....

Looking at this from the FFR game difficulties that show up when I pick songs, I really don't see "Lawn Wake IV" or "K8107" being just one difficulty harder that "Famouz" and "Yoshi's Cookie". I just don't see it.

[Hairy Cabbage]

Originally Posted by foxfire667

Right after I said that...I go to the lists, and guess what? All of these songs are now listed as "Very Challenging". Ugh, I wonder if at one point...songs like Electro Rush x8 v2 and One Minute Waltz will be moved down in difficulty to like a "Very Challenging" or a "Challenging" because there are so many people that do beyond amazing on them....

Looking at this from the FFR game difficulties that show up when I pick songs, I really don't see "Lawn Wake IV" or "K8107" being just one difficulty harder that "Famouz" and "Yoshi's Cookie". I just don't see it.

i agree, some people need to understand that the the songs DONT get easier... while people DO get better, just because a song now has over 100 AAA's, it dosent mea the song has become easy, it means there are alot of good players out there now, not to mention hacked/second account scores...

and i do think that if it keeps going the way it is, that some of the harder FMO's will become VC's...

[Plan_Bsk81127]

Seeing K8107 a VC makes me feel like I suck. D:

[foxfire667]

Originally Posted by Hairy Cabbage

i agree, some people need to understand that the the songs DONT get easier... while people DO get better, just because a song now has over 100 AAA's, it dosent mea the song has become easy, it means there are alot of good players out there now, not to mention hacked/second account scores...

and i do think that if it keeps going the way it is, that some of the harder FMO's will become VC's...

EXACTLY! You get what I'm talking about, just because a song has some good stats on it, doesn't mean the song is therefore easy, it just means there are some good players or botters getting very good scores or AAA's on the song.

I mean just because a lot of people did amazing on "Reluctantly Accepting Temporary Over-exhaustion," does this mean that it should be moved down to a "For Gurus only" or even a "For Masters Only?"

If they keep basing the stats off of how many people did good, versus how difficult the song actually is for people to do good on, then everything gets screwed up big time.

Now yeah, some songs do sometimes need to be double checked for difficulty if someone made a mistake, but if it is for no reason other than "people are starting to do really well on this song," that is when it falls apart.

[Patashu]

Originally Posted by Plan_Bsk81127

Seeing K8107 a VC makes me feel like I suck. D:

it's seriously a VC I booflagged it back when I played (and the boo was a mental block)

[mhss1992]

They either should move all of these songs to VC, or several other songs, like the final VCs in misc, should be moved to FMO.
I think I prefer the first option.

[jimerax]

meh, things like "at this pace RATO will become FMO" are the most useless kind of discussions here.

and yeah changing Fei Longer to VC is likely.

[Niala]

@Firefox and Hairy Cabbage:

The people who have the power to change FMO's to VC's don't listen to our reasoning, and then provide little to no points refuting what we have to say, that, might I add, are typically the same things repeated over and over, and still think that they're right. Stop arguing, it's useless. We did this whole thing before forever ago when the changes of what unlocks [Oni] were being discussed, and not a single person listened to what anybody had to say except their own opinion, which is not biased to the side of people for moving [Oni] up, however. Don't waste your breath, even if you are right, there's no point fighting a losing battle. I don't disagree with you two at all, but, it's a waste of time.

On the subject of Hajnal, I think 79 fits, probably not quite an 80, but if you want to make it the easiest 80, then go ahead.. The last 500 combo is full of 32nd rolls that make the chart tough to PA/AAA. It seems that people tend to judge this song on it just being 2000 arrows, and it just being really easy, and relatively slow, small 16th spurts with jumps layered in, which for the most part is true, but the multicolored trill followed by a 32nd roll is really tough to consistently PA, and the ending makes this song hard enough to warrant a 79 or an 80. And, yes, IMO, much harder than Strangeprogram and Rottel. Strangeprogram=stream. And, the song is fast enough that you don't even need to have especially good timing because of the wide range of perfects on FFR. It has a few tricky spots, i.e., the rolls that switch directions, and the 1-handed trills, but really, it's not all that hard. It's not like you're playing Perfect Cherry Storm or something...

Rottel is MUCH easier, I always thought it should be a 77 or 78, personally. The only hard part of the song is the beginning, because it was foolishly stepped, and is probably harder to PA than all of CCCP and J'ai Envie de Plaisir x2 if they were layered on top of each other. Other than that, it's just simple 8th jumpstream, with a few 16th jumps that aren't even that hard, except the [13][24][13][24][13] section. If the start wasn't there, it'd probably be a VC, because there's nothing else that even begins to describe FMO status on FFR. And, if those two songs are 79's, then Hajnal can be a 79 too.

It's kind of hard to compare FotBB and AIM Anthem to Hajnal, considering they're all basically polar opposites. It's hard to compare jacks and trills to Hajnal, which has 1 trill and no jacks. It's all 32nd rolls, which needs a different kind of skill to do. You can't add 3 apples and 4 oranges, and say you have 7 orapples. Doesn't work that way. If you want to compare raw difficulty, however, Hajnal is probably easier than both of them, but, they're both shorter, and have a significantly smaller amount of arrows, so it evens them out. In terms of being able to AAA them... Hajnal has enough screwy spots to stop you from AAAing it consistently, and to make it tough to AAA the first time. It's not like certain FMO's, i.e., Largiloquent Dithyramb, where if you get 1 spot (the 24th jacks) you can most likely get the rest. There's enough in there to screw with you. FotBB is really hard to AAA because of a couple of reasons, the biggest one I'm seeing is the fact that it doesn't feel on time. Also, the 1-handed trills are death, and numerous. Personally, I think it should be higher than 79, make it an 80, or an 81, but that's not going to happen, so whatever. AIM Anthem is nice and short, and only about half of it is what's considered hard about the chart, the jacks. And, for the most part, they're all just the same jack repeated like 16 times, and then it changes. Plus, it gives you nice little breaks, which makes it easier to keep up with. However... the jumpjacks that switch arrows, and those arrows HAD to be a 1-handed jump switching to a 2-handed jump make it incredibly hard to AAA. However, 79 still fits, because it's not especially difficult except those few measures of steps.

GoSW is actually not that hard when you get the hang of it. I'm really awful at it, but, the chart is all the same, just 24th stream. Although, some of the stream is kind of messy, it doesn't change much except for the spot with the trills, so you know what to expect, and it makes the song easier to get through. The song isn't exceptionally fast, either, so, it makes the trills pretty easy to PA, and the rest quite easy still. You might get tripped up because some of the rhythms are a really awkward, but, the chart overall isn't that hard.

Comparing it to Epidermis... They're really about the same, Epidermis is a lot faster, but has almost no 32nds in it, and fewer jumps. The rhythms in the middle are silly and make it tough to PA, but the rest is just a matter of "are you fast enough?" because there's a lot of the stream that makes you try to do patterns like 1343134313431etc., and the 1-handed triplets make it tough to PA. But, the songs are similar in idea, I'd say around the same difficulty level, or so.

EDIT: I like to write novels. :B
EDIT2: As a side note, I'd like to see more posts like this ^^^. More interesting to read, with legitimate points. You all need to back up your opinions...

[what up]

stank pussy

[foxfire667]

Originally Posted by Niala

@Firefox and Hairy Cabbage:

The people who have the power to change FMO's to VC's don't listen to our reasoning, and then provide little to no points refuting what we have to say, that, might I add, are typically the same things repeated over and over, and still think that they're right. Stop arguing, it's useless. We did this whole thing before forever ago when the changes of what unlocks [Oni] were being discussed, and not a single person listened to what anybody had to say except their own opinion, which is not biased to the side of people for moving [Oni] up, however. Don't waste your breath, even if you are right, there's no point fighting a losing battle. I don't disagree with you two at all, but, it's a waste of time.

That is probably true, but sense I have the ability to on the site, I want to at least speak up a bit about being a little uneasy on the changes. I haven't been on here for 5 years or anything, and certainly have no idea about who listens to who or who does what, or if any site moderators are even paying attention to the users at all, but I figure, if I say something...at least I gave some shot at trying to make a compromise, or to just plain scrap the new idea in general. According to many people around here, the site moderators / administrators aren't exactly "democratic" with the users on the site, and just do what they want to do, but hell. I might as well at least say something about it if I feel like it is something that isn't exactly the most logical solution, at least in my opinion.

Although you are probably right on that, if they want to do it, it is going to happen, simple as that. I mean there was a time when Vertex BETA was a "For Masters Only," I guess they are just lowering the difficulties again...and soon enough they'll lower some difficulties on more songs.

I'm just saying, that at the moment...they have songs in there that are hard for me to FC without some mashing in the SAME difficulty as some songs I have black-flagged / AAA'd etc. I think that is a little too much variety, for just one single difficulty rating.

Also: My user-name is incredible, everyone for some reason puts "firefox" instead of "foxfire" when they try to type or say my user-name anywhere. It is crazy!

[DAD1]

Originally Posted by what up

stank pussy

what up

[Niala]

Originally Posted by foxfire667

That is probably true, but sense I have the ability to on the site, I want to at least speak up a bit about being a little uneasy on the changes. I haven't been on here for 5 years or anything, and certainly have no idea about who listens to who or who does what, or if any site moderators are even paying attention to the users at all, but I figure, if I say something...at least I gave some shot at trying to make a compromise, or to just plain scrap the new idea in general. According to many people around here, the site moderators / administrators aren't exactly "democratic" with the users on the site, and just do what they want to do, but hell. I might as well at least say something about it if I feel like it is something that isn't exactly the most logical solution, at least in my opinion.

Although you are probably right on that, if they want to do it, it is going to happen, simple as that. I mean there was a time when Vertex BETA was a "For Masters Only," I guess they are just lowering the difficulties again...and soon enough they'll lower some difficulties on more songs.

I'm just saying, that at the moment...they have songs in there that are hard for me to FC without some mashing in the SAME difficulty as some songs I have black-flagged / AAA'd etc. I think that is a little too much variety, for just one single difficulty rating.

Also: My user-name is incredible, everyone for some reason puts "firefox" instead of "foxfire" when they try to type or say my user-name anywhere. It is crazy!

I applaud your effort, then, because I've given up on it. I don't disagree at all with the points you're making, either, so good luck to you. And, wow, I hadn't even noticed that your name was foxfire and not firefox... I guess I'm just mentally trained to read it the other way, haha.

[jimerax]

I listen to opinions that make sense when I see them. In this case it's worth listening if you can logically explain "Silence/K8107/etc are significaltly harder than high-VC songs and as hard as other FMOs". Another alternative is keeping all old FMOs and raising some high-VC songs, but I hate this one.

I didn't join [Oni] change discussion at all, so I don't know.

[jimerax]

oh and it's funny to see recent people don't even know about avmiss era and how songs were rated at that time and how they were changed

[Niala]

Originally Posted by jimerax

I listen to opinions that make sense when I see them. In this case it's worth listening if you can logically explain "Silence/K8107/etc are significaltly harder than high-VC songs and as hard as other FMOs". Another alternative is keeping all old FMOs and raising some high-VC songs, but I hate this one.

I didn't join [Oni] change discussion at all, so I don't know.

Nah, didn't really mean you. You actually ask people for their opinions and tend to make changes based on what not only you, but what other people think. It's mostly mods on the basis of [Oni] that I was referring to, however, a lot of people on the side of not changing the [Oni]-unlock songs weren't even capable of listening to the other side, so it was really unfair either way.

Silence is a VC. Blue-note-syndrome was the only reason it was EVER a FMO, and it doesn't even seem like much of a problem anymore, so, that's that.

K8107. Iffy. Very borderline. The trills are kind of hard to AAA consistently, you can screw them up really easily. The stream is easy, the 8th sections are easy, but the ending... It's kind of hard. But, really, it's just jumptrills, and it's not really THAT hard, because the patterns are very player friendly. I can see VC for it.

LW4 is a fine VC, too. Stream is all really easy. For the most part it doesn't even switch directions, it's just back and forth patterns. The start has kind of awkward rhythms, but really, it's a VC.

SC... I can see why it's not an FMO, but I can't see why it IS a VC. If you want jumpstream FMO's, then compare it to EHHS and 4CT, and it doesn't even come close to being an FMO. But, the jumpstream is kind of long and consistent throughout the song, and it has 32nds in the stream, which makes it quite a bit harder to PA. And then there's the 16th jump section near the end which is kind of difficult... I think maybe making it a 75 is more fair. It's kind of very borderline.

I'm not even going to bother discussing NWE. I think making LW4 the 74 and SC a 75 makes more sense than the other way around, but I don't disagree with the changes, although I'd like to see SC and/or K8107 being FMO's. They feel like they fit.