Free grammar lessons! - Page 33

GuidoHunter · 05-25-2009, 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dore

predicating verb

Stop making up terms.

Quote:

You could say "He has rose" which would use the past perfect tense of rise as an intransitive verb. "He has risen" makes no sense.

I think I've isolated the problem here: you don't know how to conjugate the verb "to rise".

Rise-rose-risen. Let me repeat: Risen is the past participle of rise.

"He rises from the dead."
"He rose from the dead."
"He has risen from the dead."

And when "from the dead" is understood:
"He has risen."

Quote:

In this case, you are using "has" as a transitive verb which requires a direct object, which means you would have to have a noun following "has." Risen is not a noun.

To reiterate, "has" is, in this case, a helping verb.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/risen

Both sentences are grammatically correct.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

**dore** · 05-25-2009, 01:23 AM

A participle can not act as a verb in a sentence. It is a form of a verb that works as an adjective. I just took a class on this and how verbs function as different parts of speech. I can go in depth if you want but I have a feeling you won't believe what I'm saying so I won't bother unless you ask

EDIT:

Quote:

Originally Posted by definition of participle

an adjective or complement to certain auxiliaries that is regularly derived from the verb in many languages and refers to participation in the action or state of the verb; a verbal form used as an adjective.

Note how a participle is an adjective and not a verb.

Commandersa1 · 05-25-2009, 03:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dore

Participles can be either adjectival or adverbial. They are just almost never adverbial so that case is generally ignored.

Risen in this case is an adjective. It's a form of a verb but it functions as an adjective. So you can't say "He has risen." Has is either a helping verb or a predicating verb. You could say "He has rose" which would use the past perfect tense of rise as an intransitive verb. "He has risen" makes no sense. In this case, you are using "has" as a transitive verb which requires a direct object, which means you would have to have a noun following "has." Risen is not a noun.

Uhm...How does "He has rose" sound right at all? If you say it out loud, you should be able to understand why it is wrong. You can even type both phrases in google and see which one people use.

http://www.wordchamp.com/lingua2/Ver...&languageID=13

Present Perfect
I have risen
you have risen
he/she/it has risen
we have risen
they have risen

Past
I rose
you rose
he/she/it rose
we rose
they rose

GuidoHunter · 05-25-2009, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dore

A participle can not act as a verb in a sentence.

Not by itself, no, but by your own definition, it is "an adjective or complement to certain auxiliaries that ... refers to participation in the action or state of the verb."

Quote:

It is a form of a verb that works as an adjective. I just took a class on this and how verbs function as different parts of speech. I can go in depth if you want but I have a feeling you won't believe what I'm saying so I won't bother unless you ask

I've taken a class on linguistics. Hell, I even took it in another language. Try me.

Quote:

Note how a participle is an adjective and not a verb.

Fantastic.

Now tell me what the verb is in this sentence:
"I have hit the ball."
or this one:
"I have awoken."

If you said, "have hit," or "have awoken," congratulations! You're right!

Now tell me what the difference is between either of those sentences and "He has risen."

There is no difference. "Has risen" is the verb, "He" is the subject, and when you put a subject and an intransitive verb together, you get a perfectly grammatical sentence.

EDIT: Also, I misspoke earlier when I referred to "has risen" as the past participle, when it's the present one. Apologies.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

**dore** · 05-26-2009, 07:54 AM

k so apparently my grammar professor had the perfect tense all wrong lol

sorry

Yiri · 07-27-2009, 07:37 PM

mmm nope i still kinda fail at gramer o-o

Yiri · 07-27-2009, 07:40 PM

wait... if i have to do an esay or write a letter im going to be really mad at you >.>

Necros140606 · 07-28-2009, 11:30 PM

this is a pretty good thread for a foreign bumpkin like myself, guess i'll go ahead and verify my level of correctness.

**Darkbreezee** · 08-9-2009, 05:07 PM

wow thanks to that dude o.o , i guess i shall keep going on learnin grammar o.ô xD, especially me cuz i'm german =D

Seefu Sefirosu · 09-4-2009, 03:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuidoHunter

What? I'm pretty sure you just invented the term "adjectival participle". "Risen" in the sentence "he is risen" is just a participle being used as an adjective. It's neither an "adjectival" participle nor a "verbal" participle; it's just a participle, regardless of its use in the sentence.

Secondly, what in the hell is wrong with "he has risen"? Abso-freakin'-lutely nothing. It's perfectly grammatical. It's even a straightforward conjugation:

present: he rises
past: he rose
present participle: he is rising
past participle: he has risen.

The "he is/has risen" question is merely an example about the multiple possible uses of a participle.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

Sorry for long-assed bump... however, hate to tell you:

Different types of participles:

Verbal
Adjectival
Adverbial

Those are pretty much it, but still.

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Afrobean · 09-4-2009, 03:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seefu Sefirosu

Sorry for long-assed bump... however, hate to tell you:

Different types of participles:

Verbal
Adjectival
Adverbial

Those are pretty much it, but still.

Awww... he thinks he's people.

GuidoHunter · 09-4-2009, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seefu Sefirosu

Sorry for long-assed bump... however, hate to tell you:

Different types of participles:

Verbal
Adjectival
Adverbial

Those are pretty much it, but still.

Maybe in Russian or Hungarian, but this isn't a thread about linguistics; it's about English grammar.

We have present and past participles and the such, which act like verbs and adjectives, but we make no real distinction between verbal or adverbial participles.

My Polish Linguisitcs is weak, so I hadn't ever heard of those terms. Thanks for picking nits, though.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

**dore** · 09-4-2009, 02:15 PM

they look the same they just have different functions, and you have to be able to distinguish them to identify how they work in a given structure

Seefu Sefirosu · 09-4-2009, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuidoHunter

Maybe in Russian or Hungarian, but this isn't a thread about linguistics; it's about English grammar.

We have present and past participles and the such, which act like verbs and adjectives, but we make no real distinction between verbal or adverbial participles.

My Polish Linguisitcs is weak, so I hadn't ever heard of those terms. Thanks for picking nits, though.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

Er... I was speaking of English grammar, not linguistics in general. Grammarians can and do make distinctions between different participial forms.

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{Mystery} · 09-4-2009, 04:10 PM

Seriously, is this **** for real? o.0

**tha Guardians** · 09-4-2009, 11:00 PM

Kill yourself {Mystery}.

ohnoitsbonnie · 09-11-2009, 04:27 AM

Srs thread is srs!

SwiftSlayer911 · 10-29-2009, 10:47 AM

sooo... I hope you did not type all of that

05-26-2009, 07:54 AM	#645
dore caveman pornstar Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: ridin on a unicorn Age: 33 Posts: 6,317	Re: Free grammar lessons! k so apparently my grammar professor had the perfect tense all wrong lol sorry __________________ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IREnpHco9mw Last edited by dore; 05-26-2009 at 08:12 AM..

07-27-2009, 07:37 PM	#646
Yiri FFR Player Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 7	Re: Free grammar lessons! mmm nope i still kinda fail at gramer o-o __________________

07-27-2009, 07:40 PM	#647
Yiri FFR Player Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 7	Re: Free grammar lessons! wait... if i have to do an esay or write a letter im going to be really mad at you >.> __________________

07-28-2009, 11:30 PM	#648
Necros140606 FFR Player Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Italy Age: 35 Posts: 1,088	Re: Free grammar lessons! this is a pretty good thread for a foreign bumpkin like myself, guess i'll go ahead and verify my level of correctness. __________________

08-9-2009, 05:07 PM	#649
Darkbreezee FFR Veteran Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Germany Posts: 455	Re: Free grammar lessons! wow thanks to that dude o.o , i guess i shall keep going on learnin grammar o.ô xD, especially me cuz i'm german =D

09-4-2009, 02:15 PM	#653
dore caveman pornstar Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: ridin on a unicorn Age: 33 Posts: 6,317	Re: Free grammar lessons! they look the same they just have different functions, and you have to be able to distinguish them to identify how they work in a given structure __________________ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IREnpHco9mw

09-4-2009, 04:10 PM	#655
{Mystery} FFR Player Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 58	Re: Free grammar lessons! Seriously, is this ** for real? o.0 __________________ Currently:** {Mystery} Member [color="Lime"] FFR Average Rank: 5,666 FC: 185 AAA: 13 (best one: Story of the Constellations) 5th place (Best of Against) in Can You Beat The Dragon's_Fury Team Members? Tournament (Novice Division) COLOR]

09-11-2009, 04:27 AM	#657
ohnoitsbonnie FFR Player Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 12	Re: Free grammar lessons! Srs thread is srs!

10-29-2009, 10:47 AM	#658
SwiftSlayer911 FFR Player Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Virginia Age: 32 Posts: 35	Re: Free grammar lessons! sooo... I hope you did not type all of that __________________ Im new bear with me

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