Queue/Batch Discussion Thread

[Korygon]

Originally Posted by bmah

I'd be happy to do something only if I'm dealing with a smaller batch...doing 135 files for one batch (the June 2009 batch) just killed my enthusiasm.

THANK YOU BMAH

This is the exact point I'm trying to make

[who_cares973]

Groups I propose:

1:
Kory
Patashu
Rebirth

2:
Kommisar
NSane
bmah

3:
Gundam-Dude
WC
Mystery 12th person

4:
Jimerax
Halogen
Silvuh

those in bold have judged previously for the batch and those in italic are very familiar with the judging process and could easily judge given all they know. so pretty much every person here knows how ffr files should look and wont be trying to shape ffr files to be more like sm files.

also kayla i wouldnt recommend you as a judge not because you arent in an elitist stepmania group but because i dont really know the extent of your abilities. silvuh and bmah arent lcs they arent dcs hell they arent part of any stepping group that i know of at all and pretty much everyone recommends them as judges because theyre known for making good files and have shown that by producing high quality replayable charts. stop assuming that because we're part of a group that we all think the same and expect the same from everyone. you pretty much always categorize us with stargroup. just because his bar for file quality is retardedly high doesnt mean everyone thinks like he does

[TC_Halogen]

Originally Posted by Korygon

That's why I split the groups up how I did. Go look at them again.

Each group has a technical judge, one who just cares about fun factor, and one who's more of an all-around type of judge. Thats the whole point. If you know what your doing, your judgements of a file should be very similar. Thats why we can split it up, because no use getting 40 people to say the same thing on a file when 3 works just fine

edit: exactly what patashu said

If everyone's judgments on a file are similar, you're implying that there's no difference in opinion even for minor details. Again, it goes back to bias. Also, I see a hell of a lot of technical judges in that list, but I might be wrong.

I have no issues splitting up the batch, but there's always that bias that could (rarely) exist between the x amount of users in each group judging in the same manner.

[Korygon]

Carlos I'm hurt. I've been around this place for years I know what good FFR files look like. Italicize me dammit ;___;


but agreed in all other points

[who_cares973]

i dont ever remember you being involved in this thread at all sorry kory : x

[Patashu]

files being judged differently by different judges isn't the big problem it seems to be made out to be, because
1) judges already change over time (both in terms of each judge's personal approach and which judges do each batch). in fact, sometimes what a judge decides to put down depends entirely on what mood they're in, what they've looked at recently and what other people's opinions that they've heard of are! I've personally re-arranged my judgements after looking at later files
2) assuming reasonable picks, terrible files won't be accepted and awesome files won't be rejected, it's only ones that are murky and controversial that might be giving the 'wrong' rating, but hasn't this always been an issue?

is it a perceived fairness issue? e.g. 'I submitted a file and judges A B and C rejected it, but if X Y and Z judged it instead it would have gotten in'? because of 1) this is a problem with or without batch splitting. the urge to 'scum' the batch for a judge set who will like your file won't be that high either, because of the multimonth gap between batches you may as well spend the time improving it so it will be more acceptable anyway.

[TC_Halogen]

Also - one other thing that I'm confused about within the judging team - what happens if a member goes AWOL?

Again, I may sound like I'm shooting down the system, but it's because it seems like there's a lot of unanswered questions/ambiguous details that I'm not aware of. To me, it looks like a really odd system and I may very well be ignorant to how everything works.

[Korygon]

If a member goes AWOL then they get replaced. Not too hard.


Carlos I was an asshole bugging everyone about bad files back in the rshadow days =)

[psychoangel691]

Originally Posted by who_cares973

also kayla i wouldnt recommend you as a judge not because you arent in an elitist stepmania group but because i dont really know the extent of your abilities.

I've been going through files for the 10 months for the custom. I had people like Byron sending me files to check out even before that. I've learned pretty much everything there is to know about the technical stuff between all the people I listed earlier. Plus I've been playing FFR for almost 6yrs now staring at charts seeing how they evolved, etc. But that's why I didn't even bother offering to help because regardless of all of that, I wouldn't be looked at as good enough to do it anyway because I haven't made a bunch of files that are in packs or in game. I dabble in a ton of stepping but I'm too damn shy to really show any of it to anyone because of the way I've seen some judges be. Some of them just sit there and put people down when they're trying to do their best and learn. I'm not saying every judge does that but I've seen a ton of that go on.

All and all I just don't want to see a group that's going to be all super technical and suck the fun out of it all.

[jimerax]

Originally Posted by TC_Halogen

More like you drop a crap-ton of the members who are going to judge the same way, and go back to FFR's old judging where it was only three to five people. This team stuff is really stupid because it's going to make batches a crap-ton longer.

Old system requires a lot of task for judges due to the # of submissions, and we know it's difficult to keep doing. plus, the judgement was actually delayed so many times in the past.

On this team system, if a judge can't do judgement until the deadline for some reason other judges or backup judges can make up for it.

Fairness is only point people would complain but isn't really a big issue like patashu said (as long as a team has 3+ judges), since judges were changed like everytime on old system.

[Patashu]

Originally Posted by TC_Halogen

Also - one other thing that I'm confused about within the judging team - what happens if a member goes AWOL?

The answer 'someone else takes their place' seems simple enough, but it assumes a base of communication. As in, it will immediately be known how much work someone else has done or if queried about it they will swiftly respond.

Ultimately, the onus will have to be on the judges to report how much they've done, to facilitate the remainders being done by someone else.

EDIT: Oh, and I'd like to see psychoangel judging.

[who_cares973]

Originally Posted by psychoangel691

I've been going through files for the 10 months for the custom. I had people like Byron sending me files to check out even before that. I've learned pretty much everything there is to know about the technical stuff between all the people I listed earlier. Plus I've been playing FFR for almost 6yrs now staring at charts seeing how they evolved, etc. But that's why I didn't even bother offering to help because regardless of all of that, I wouldn't be looked at as good enough to do it anyway because I haven't made a bunch of files that are in packs or in game. I dabble in a ton of stepping but I'm too damn shy to really show any of it to anyone because of the way I've seen some judges be. Some of them just sit there and put people down when they're trying to do their best and learn. I'm not saying every judge does that but I've seen a ton of that go on.

All and all I just don't want to see a group that's going to be all super technical and suck the fun out of it all.

well there you go. get known and you might get considered for judging positions for packs or ffr. if you dont get involved then you wont get noticed

[psychoangel691]

Originally Posted by Patashu

EDIT: Oh, and I'd like to see psychoangel judging.

Somehow I find that kinda hard to believe lol.

[Patashu]

Why do you not believe me? Is it because I'm perceived as an elitist and thus by definition must have views that crush the stepmania proletariat?

[Korygon]

psychoangel, I dont think most of us have any issues judging. Problem is we don't know your abilities. Once you get a bit more known to the stepfile portion of the community, then there will be no more question.


Sorry to say, but pretty much everyone who didn't get involved with DF has no idea about your judging skills or anything of the sort

[psychoangel691]

Originally Posted by who_cares973

well there you go. get known and you might get considered for judging positions for packs or ffr. if you dont get involved then you wont get noticed

FFR was down, kbo was a bit on the strict side for me, and I'm not really an SM player. Kinda hard to get known amidst the judges. Plus none the less I may not be known to most of the guys here but I'm pretty well known to the regular old community. Over the 10 months I got to hear what these people wanted, what bothered them, basically I've heard everything from all angles and I have a pretty good idea of what people want because I listened to them. I don't really care if I'm a judge I just want to know that it's not going to be all strict. Would I do it if I were asked to sure because frankly since I'm pregnant, not working, and home bored all day it would give me something to do lol.

Originally Posted by Patashu

Why do you not believe me? Is it because I'm perceived as an elitist and thus by definition must have views that crush the stepmania proletariat?

No because you don't know me. Just like Carlos said. I was actually talking to Carlos a bit on aim and this was what I said about you
saphira6969 8:58 pm
patashu I do like.

You gotta realize something stargroup made me want to rip my hair out and I just don't want to see something like that happen over here when this was more a relaxed setting.

[Patashu]

I don't know you yeah, so I'm just going on the assumption that you're telling the truth (and I figure someone would point it out if you weren't)

[psychoangel691]

Originally Posted by Korygon

psychoangel, I dont think most of us have any issues judging. Problem is we don't know your abilities. Once you get a bit more known to the stepfile portion of the community, then there will be no more question.


Sorry to say, but pretty much everyone who didn't get involved with DF has no idea about your judging skills or anything of the sort

I wasn't asking to judge. I merely wanted my opinions and concerns to be heard as well. When I look at how people are being chosen it's kinda like they're only being chosen because they've made a ton of charts. But there are people out there that are just as capable that haven't made a whole bunch. There are some of us that just like to look at the charts, analyze them, whatever but aren't as big on actually making them ourselves. I get too frustrated when I try to make charts because even though I know what to do and what not to do since I haven't been doing it long it's not as easy for me to do myself without checking it a million times and moving slowly. That's not enjoyable to me. The 10 months on df has been great getting to see what everyone comes up with for charts, helping new stepartists learn and grow and man did we see growth out of people there. I think you guys are going to be surprised at some of the submissions from people that you're going to be like whoa where did they come from. And I got to be a part of that and it was great. I guess it just bugs me on how a person is considered qualified to do it. When in reality isn't this game about the community?

[Patashu]

Haha, that sounds like it'll be cool.

[Korygon]

The problem isn't qualifications. The problem is just people don't know. I mean, I didn't really make charts for kbo either, but the sake of downloading and reviewing stepmania packs (I don't really play either), the fact of reviewing in-game FFR files back in the day, just having people know that you aren't just someone random. Personally I didn't even know DF existed until 3 days ago.

When charts start getting released in game again, review them. That's how (at least I) got recognized at first as someone who even knows slightly what their talking about. Just gotta let people know.


Sorry that was crappily worded. English just isn't working for me today.



Oh and going to what you said about all these new artists. I'm looking forward to seeing these submissions. We need more artists to revive the general FFR and Stepmania community