Hard Song Special Batch [Aug 2013]

[mi40]

oh shit where are adjusted ratings

[EzExZeRo7497]

Originally Posted by mi40

oh shit where are adjusted ratings

you have to calculate it yourself

http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/...&postcount=250

This isn't necessarily accurate because we're still waiting on Carlos' ratings as well, but it should give you a general idea of your adjusted score

If you're too lazy then I'll give you a condensed formula:

Adjusted Score: Overall mean score + (Raw rating - Mean rating from judge) * (Overall standard deviation / Judge's standard deviation)

it is tedious as shit to calculate though but I did calculate the means and SDs of each judge but I'm not exactly sure if they're right or not

actually I'm unsure if this is the right formula at this point

[James May]

Originally Posted by d4u7211

so what does a pass equal again?

-5

[DossarLX ODI]

Originally Posted by EzExZeRo7497

borderline reject from the looks of it... rip

EDIT: Checked my adjusted rating, was rejected by 0.03 nice

Conditional queue needs to come back for cases like these.

There are judges willing to help with conditional queue and look over notes to see what should be changed. I would have been livid if thinking of you got rejected even though it got an 8 and two 9s.

[hi19hi19]

Fixed up Great Battleship and Turbo, ready to send my changes in as soon as the Official List Of Accepted Files gets put up.

Also fixed up HAELEQUIN and Heterochromia with my respective collab buddies, they will be sending in the changes for those files.

Altogether a pretty successful batch, I'm happy.

[mi40]

Official List of Accepted Files

=

OLAF



olaf buffs confirmed

[hi19hi19]

Originally Posted by mi40

Official List of Accepted Files

=

OLAF



olaf buffs confirmed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=am3a7t78jHk

EDIT-fucking embedded disabled :/

[d4u7211]

Originally Posted by James May

-5

is this negative five as like a joke, or 5?

seriously ngaz i wanna know what [PASS] equals in points.

[mi40]

[pass] gets rejudged by new person

[XelNya]

I'm a bit disappointed but eh.

Good to know where Before Cynthia stands though. I actually like that file.

[d4u7211]

welp either way i figured since there was already a eclipse (luna) that mine wouldn't get accepted. Well either way it got a decent score at least. Looks like mainly the bursts did it for me, which is strange considering all the stupid shit I come across in the accepted files in FFR and how even recent files have unnecessary transitions in rolls or 16th (or worse) jacks in rolls/bursts

Also colored notes signifying another instrument apparently only silvuh can do that.

just my opinion, I feel like I was slightly cheated.

[Choofers]

oh hey extratone pirates was accepted glad to see a shitty file for boring speedcore get accepted YET AGAIN

[TC_Halogen]

Originally Posted by d4u7211

welp either way i figured since there was already a eclipse (luna) that mine wouldn't get accepted. Well either way it got a decent score at least. Looks like mainly the bursts did it for me, which is strange considering all the stupid shit I come across in the accepted files in FFR and how even recent files have unnecessary transitions in rolls or 16th (or worse) jacks in rolls/bursts

Also colored notes signifying another instrument apparently only silvuh can do that.

just my opinion, I feel like I was slightly cheated.

You might have an opinion, but don't be rude to the other judges and target particular users. Looking at this file, there's certainly more wrong than burst usage/color usage.

[Choofers]

Originally Posted by d4u7211

welp either way i figured since there was already a eclipse (luna) that mine wouldn't get accepted. Well either way it got a decent score at least. Looks like mainly the bursts did it for me, which is strange considering all the stupid shit I come across in the accepted files in FFR and how even recent files have unnecessary transitions in rolls or 16th (or worse) jacks in rolls/bursts

Also colored notes signifying another instrument apparently only silvuh can do that.

just my opinion, I feel like I was slightly cheated.

colored notes are dumb in 95% of files, don't use them

if someone tells you that your file needs more color it's either stargroup or stargroup

[mi40]

i'm bummed out at the fact that dossar seems to give abnormally low scores for my files (even when adjusted) compared to other judges

1/2 compared to 5/6s from other judges on both my files he judged, seriously?

idk if it's just my style of stepping that doesnt fit with dossar's way of judging but this is too retarded

requesting somebody different to judge my files next time



e: prob cause dossar steps in a very straightforward manner (jamais vu, kidney stone, slashmaid, u get the idea) and i don't

[DossarLX ODI]

Originally Posted by mi40

i'm bummed out at the fact that dossar seems to give abnormally low scores for my files (even when adjusted) compared to other judges

1/2 compared to 5/6s from other judges on both my files he judged, seriously?

idk if it's just my style of stepping that doesnt fit with dossar's way of judging but this is too retarded

requesting somebody different to judge my files next time



e: prob cause dossar steps in a very straightforward manner (jamais vu, kidney stone, slashmaid, u get the idea) and i don't

A lot of the problem with your files is the unnecessary offsetting and how bursts suddenly just get cut off even when they're still blasting at the user. WIFO and Where's Bill have several parts that are just stepped as arbitrarily-placed color notes when there is actually a BPM change, and with that many erratic bursts in a repetitive file for 5 minutes or longer, the strictness of the judging gets exponentially higher. Both songs could benefit from a cut.

If marathons are going to be stepped, they better be worth it. I've stepped longer songs that have gotten rejected even though I put way more time into them (e.g. The Bird's Midair Heatstroke). It's one thing to finish up a marathon file, it's another to not get pride in the way of the fact that people WILL be playing this file, and it better be worth its length.

An important point that is raised however is an appeal system. There are many cases where I've seen polarized ratings with incredibly unhelpful short notes, and without a conditional queue or appeal system the file has to be resubmitted just because some judge ruined the rating with unhelpful short notes. I have no problem with some of my ratings getting appealed with another judge looking over the file, but the notes from the other judge should be looked over and not ignored.

[mi40]

for the bursts with missing notes they are intentionally put that way since i don't want people to just jumptrill but i still think a 1 on winnipeg is stupid

a 1/10 should be given under circumstances where the file indicates close to no knowledge of stepping

ps) it's not pride or anything, it's just how the point system works - if a file is on sync and has some basic structure & thought to it then it doesn't deserve a 1/10 at all
esp. since for stuff like this

"- 61.57: 7-note 32nd burst
- 62.30: 5-note 32nd burst
- 67.57: 5-note 32nd burst
- 81.28: 5-note 32nd burst"

they are intentionally left out so the file doesn't become stupid hard to AAA

[DossarLX ODI]

Originally Posted by mi40

they are intentionally left out so the file doesn't become stupid hard to AAA

Then you shouldn't have put a fast color trill 4 minutes in. Also consider the stamina needed to last through the massive jumpglut usage with 16th jump sandwiches.

I don't want to continue this further, but in general steppers need to consider the effects of submitting long files. Not only is it strenuous for the judges, it's also going to be strenuous for the players. Both judges and players have very limited time so if the song can be cut, then it should be cut.

Another thing I've seen in the other batches from stepartists is color note abuse and being cryptic in the files. Those kinds of files make me bring up this picture:



jimerax got sick of stepartists saying errors were "artistic choices", even if the offsetted note was more than a 24th off (this was the case with a piano song I judged in an earlier batch). This is why conditional queue is no longer in place. It came to a point where the steppers just kept saying nothing in their file needed to be changed, so he just removed the conditional queue system altogether. And as shown, this has caused some pretty big problems.

[Choofers]

I was always under the impression that 1/10s were used sparingly for this particular reason

[TC_Halogen]

There's things that both judges need to realize about the simfile artists submitting content and that players need to know about submitting files to judges.

First off: judges are typically well trained to pick out a number of errors; they might not display them in their notes immediately, but will be able to elaborate in any case to ensure that their notes are accurate. The constant point of contention revolves around the fact that a player "intends" on doing it a certain way -- in some cases, these ways are acceptably done and hold consistent throughout the chart. In other cases, these notes that are brought up towards "intended" structures are notes that indicate a specified structure doesn't hold out the way it's supposed to. Simfile artists can argue these, but if a judge is able to pinpoint situations where identical areas are done in completely different manners for no discernible reason, then I feel like a judge should be allowed to penalize for consistency (barring an extremely long song that really needs assistance in variation). It is up to the player to show the judge that there indeed is a constant and unvarying structure, and it is up to the judge to find those discrepancies.

Second: judges need to realize that these simfiles are for the players, and trying to dictate an opinion about how the file will be perceived is completely unfair. The whole argument of "not for FFR, do it on SM" is completely ridiculous; it's not a valid argument here, but it does go hand-in-hand with negative opinions towards marathon length files. Take Dossar and myself, for example:

Originally Posted by DossarLX ODI

Then you shouldn't have put a fast color trill 4 minutes in. Also consider the stamina needed to last through the massive jumpglut usage with 16th jump sandwiches.

I don't want to continue this further, but in general steppers need to consider the effects of submitting long files. Not only is it strenuous for the judges, it's also going to be strenuous for the players. Both judges and players have very limited time so if the song can be cut, then it should be cut.

I remember having a conversation with this about Dossar, and how he felt like the song should have had the BPM changed to accommodate for a cleaner rhythm visually in Where's Bill. I agree with wanting the chart to be cleaner, but I personally don't think it's an extreme detriment to the chart given what the song sounds like. Granted, the rhythm certainly isn't perfect in this case, I disagree with changing the BPM because there's no clear notation change that is extended (if you want to see a mistake in notation, play my chart for Frictional Nevada on DF, where everything starts being spaced in 3/32nd intervals).

Long songs that are simple/constant are incredibly boring -- peaks and valleys in difficulty make the chart replayable, and a LOT more tense for the player, which is (in my opinion) an awesome experience. I can't begin to count how many times I had a blast playing Red Wings Over Baron, even though it had split-handed jumptrills nearly 6 minutes in. It's a part you expect, and instills nerves immediately when you're successful. If you disagree with this reasoning, that's fine -- but always understand: there's someone with the opposing opinion as you, and knocking points off for simply doing your best to follow the music is unfair. There are instances where simfile artists go physically overboards (DarkZtar's I is a horrifying example of what we might be playing if players don't stop improving soon).

I have the same sentiments towards Robotomy -- the file isn't exactly the most ergonomic, but it follows the rhythms of the song really well. Yes, it could use some work, but it's not something that I (personally) believe deserves a 1/10. It is playable, and does have some enjoyable aspects.

In addition, judges really need to normalize their ratings based off of the errors within a chart. If you're finding a bunch of ghosts or occasional missing steps, they shouldn't be worth nearly as much as actual structural inconsistencies/sync errors, and this is a problem that I see in judgments all the time. This is an inherent issue present with judges that write extremely short notes -- even though simfile artists do have the opportunity to ask judges for specifics, many of them don't. Ratings can technically be re-assessed, because contrary to belief: judges are human and do make mistakes. I look at the 4 that I gave to Herbie Goes Ballistic back in the last batch compared to the notes that I gave out, and I'm like "jeez, that was stupid harsh".

I'm just babbling at this point, but I think everyone needs to just take a 1000 mg dose of chill.

Judges need to have simfile artists in mind just as much as players need to keep in mind that the judges are just trying to do their job.