If you've moved from being religious to Athiest, how did that go?

[FictionJunction]

Originally Posted by iggymatrixcounter

Are you forever closed to the idea of religion, or if you could find something that answered your questions, would you do another soul searching like you did from religiousness (that a word?) to atheism?

I'm agnostic, so I'm not closed to the idea of following a designated religion. I certainly would not return to Catholicism. That much I can say.

[staticwolf]

Originally Posted by Squeek

It's looking slim at this point. FSMism seems the most logical religion. What should I do?

Things may look slim, but I wouldn't suggest you give up on religion just yet. How many religions have you honestly considered? How many clerics of different religions have you truly consulted (i.e assaulted with criticism) to find out if they can offer you a religion promising a satisfactory and confident meaning to life? Don't shrug and say that such types don't exist without trying to find them. You need to make an effort to find the truth.

Many times, when I come across a particularly good show of nature like a sunset or something, I think to myself: could this have been created all by itself? Basically, when you look around, you get the feeling that things have always been 'created'. Planting and watering seeds creates crops. The blowing of wind gradually creates mountains. The sun creates clouds through evaporation. This pattern of an action resulting in creation makes me want to believe that this universe was indeed 'created'. And don't tell me the big bang created the universe. The big bang too, was a result of an action. This action in turn was probably the result of another action... just like a domino effect. So, for me, the question boils down not to 'if' someone started it... but rather, 'who' started it.

My belief in a divine creator doesn't seem to waning. Whether this symmetrical creator created good or evil, light or dark, happiness or sorrow in balance according to some design, these things were nonetheless created. I'd safely say atheism is a little far off for me just yet.

[Squeek]

Uh.

It's not like I actually want to be part of a religion. I don't "seek" the "truth". I don't "seek" a path of "enlightenment" brought upon me by some higher being. I "seek" only improving myself. The best way to do that is to take MY OWN views on things, put them against what I know to be true, and see if they line up.

Creationism seemed like an incredibly stupid idea. You look at things and go "There's no way this formed on its own." I look at things and go "There's no way one 'thing' made this in six days."

Things happen in the Universe all the time. Sorry if you believe some higher being is causing them. I like to believe this is quite the standard occurance, and it is spontaneous.

[Anticrombie0909]

Athiest by simple logic. It's far more rational to believe that everything around us is simply a by-product of billions of years of chemical equations than it is to assume that there is some magical great being floating above the clouds who stuck everything here for no apparent purpose and has hence completely disappeared.

[Reach]

And don't tell me the big bang created the universe. The big bang too, was a result of an action. This action in turn was probably the result of another action... just like a domino effect. So, for me, the question boils down not to 'if' someone started it... but rather, 'who' started it.

Yea but you're contradicting yourself.

And this god would also have to be the result of an action.

If God created the universe than something created God and thus something even greater than God must exist.




My own personal thoughts on this issue:




I think an interesting thing to ponder is; can action happen without cause?

And I think the answer is yes, and it lays right within the foundation of quantum mechanics.

With no real cause things happen at an increasingly random rate as the distance between two points in space gets smaller.

Now take a look at thermodynamics. Energy can't be created or destroyed. Amazing!

Give quantum physics ample time to produce a proper fluctuation in vaccuum energy, and there's your bang. Let entropy do the rest of the work.


I've never bought the idea of this magical god that can simply exist without cause and contradict everything we know is true when there are other means of explaining the universe.

It personally seems like a very human way of saying 'We arn't smart enough to understand why we exist'.

Of course we see cause and relations. It's called evolution. Humans are really good at seeing things that arn't there and really good at finding answers to problems they don't know the answer to. We see order and creation because of how our brain works; it puts things together and gives reason where there is none. Take our vision for example. Your brain can fill in information even when your eyes do not see it (there are ample illusions to prove this).

I mean, because a watch is complex and we built it, if a leaf is complex it must also have been built by a designer. This is one huge assumption.

This is another reason why I do not believe in any God entities. I figure one day we will either figure out the reason why the universe and everything in it was never created and cannot be destroyed, or our lives will forever remain a mystery.

[FictionJunction]

Originally Posted by Reach

And this god would also have to be the result of an action.

If God created the universe than something created God and thus something even greater than God must exist.

This is true.
You may have entirely slanted my position on all this.

[banditcom]

Atheist*

Originally Posted by staticwolf

You need to make an effort to find the truth.

He did find the truth and that is doing what he wants. The meaning of life is what you make it out to be.

Originally Posted by staticwolf

Many times, when I come across a particularly good show of nature like a sunset or something, I think to myself: could this have been created all by itself? Basically, when you look around, you get the feeling that things have always been 'created'. Planting and watering seeds creates crops. The blowing of wind gradually creates mountains. The sun creates clouds through evaporation. This pattern of an action resulting in creation makes me want to believe that this universe was indeed 'created'.

Exact opposite for me. I look at these things and say to myself "there is no way these can be created by anyone."


I went to church mostly every week when I was younger... Probably between ages 5-8. I very quickly started to think of what was being said and believing how absurd it was. When we moved, we stopped going to church. My grandma, whenever I visited, would mention going to church with her on Sunday. I went a few times when I was young just to please her, but have denied it every time since. She's told me "it'd be good for you" basically every time I've told her no.

So early on, I became agnostic. Then I didn't know there was a definition for it, but that's what I was. It wasn't until a year and a half ago that I labeled myself as atheist. When I laid down, there were a number of times I'd think to myself all these questions about whether or not there is a God. It took a bit to answer that with a no.

Also, all those preachers on TV have made me disgusted with religion. I can't stand hearing it. I remember one time I was up at my uncle's cabin when we were all hunting (though, I just hung out because I found hunting very boring) and there was a preacher on TV. I stood there, watching it, laughing at all the bs nonsense coming out of his mouth. This was while I was agnostic. I couldn't believe just how much stuff he was pulling out of his ass. It was quite unbelievable how he could do that, and how people were sitting there and sitting at home watching it, taking in everything what he says as truth.... It made me angry. :/

[Reach]

Exact opposite for me. I look at these things and say to myself "there is no way these can be created by anyone."

http://www.pparc.ac.uk/Ps/aac/images/full.jpg

no words.

(those are all galaxies. Keep in mind that is a small portion of the sky. Each one contains billions of stars).

[banditcom]

Don't lie. That is glitter sprinkled onto black construction paper.

[lord_carbo]

Originally Posted by iggymatrixcounter

I'm seeing a pattern of Catholic faith -> atheism.

Actually, I am (was) Protestant.

[Squeek]

You know what that picture is?

One day, a young Astronomer named Hubble decided "wow there are a lot of stars out there to look at. But wait, I just had a crazy idea! Let's point this telescope, the most powerful telescope in the world right now, at a spot of the sky that is BLANK. No stars to be seen. Leave it there over a period of time, and let's see what shows up after a while."

They come back a while later and see this.

That must've been one of the most "OMG" moments in history.

[Kilgamayan]

What's the deal with these people announcing themselves as "non-religious"? There's nothing inherently wrong with being atheistic or agnostic, and if you're not religious then one of those terms must apply to you. Are you really that desperate to not be lumped into a group? This is the kind of elitism and rebelliousness I would expect of Rai and Moogy rather than the people who have demonstrated it in this topic so far.

[staticwolf]

Hope I'm not coming across as a church-lover. I agree with you guys when you say that the church is full of bull. I am totally for that.

In my opinion, even if you consider something as logical as science... it's just a set of rules we've created in our limited perception of things. And whenever something like 'the world isn't flat after all' hits us, we modify the rules until our perception is happy.

Reach:
Now take a look at thermodynamics. Energy can't be created or destroyed. Amazing!

Whoa! Our perception on energy looks good. That is, until someone like Galileo comes along and maybe educates us a bit more. Then, we stick with that. Although we can explain a few things, there is still room for a whole lot of explanation. Plus, explanations might have to be revised depending on whichever scenario presents itself.

I guess the reason you don't want to believe in god is that church tells you to believe in god. Reason enough. And so, you keep looking for ways, using science, to prove otherwise.

Science puts things into their places. But the way our understanding of it is, it can't put everything into it's place. I don't think our science is strong enough to rule out god. Not-guilty until proven otherwise, I say.

Great scientists like the illuminati went against the church, but most of them believed in god. Some even wanted to prove that there was a relation between science and god. I'm with them.

[FictionJunction]

Originally Posted by staticwolf

In my opinion, even if you consider something as logical as science... it's just a set of rules we've created in our limited perception of things. And whenever something like 'the world isn't flat after all' hits us, we modify the rules until our perception is correct.

There fixed.
We don't channge science because one theory makes us more comfortable than the other. Quite the opposite. We change science because we discover, and through these discoveries we correct previous theories. Facts are apathetic to one's comfort. The fact that people from years past were uncomfortable with the thought of the world being round didn't change the fact that the world was, in fact, round.

Originally Posted by staticwolf

I guess the reason you don't want to believe in god is that church tells you to believe in god. Reason enough. And so, you keep looking for ways, using science, to prove otherwise.

It's not that we (I don't want to speak for everyone, so I apologize) don't believe in God because the church tells us to, because we wouldn't feel uncomfortable believing in something we're told to believe, just as long as this belief is no longer myth or fable.. but a fact.

Originally Posted by staticwolf

Science puts things into their places. But the way our understanding of it is, it can't put everything into it's place. I don't think our science is strong enough to rule out god. Not-guilty until proven otherwise, I say.

Nor God can rule out science. Think about something simple as Gravity. Can God really rule that out? =X The way gravity functions is fully comprehended by us mere human beings, how can God change that?

Originally Posted by staticwolf

Great scientists like the illuminati went against the church, but most of them believed in god. Some even wanted to prove that there was a relation between science and god. I'm with them.

I like them <3 Seriously.
I'm not affiliated to the Church or any organized religion. I like to have the excuse of a higher power who placed everything here for us, but alas, after what Reach stated, I might have to rethink this. What he said makes absolute sense.

[staticwolf]

Originally Posted by FictionJunction

Nor God can rule out science. Think about something simple as Gravity. Can God really rule that out? =X The way gravity functions is fully comprehended by us mere human beings, how can God change that?

Somehow, the way you put things, it seems like you're saying either God or science can exist at a time. Why have you ruled out that both God and science can co-exist. Each one in existence without threatening the other. I'll bet you haven't thought about it this way.

What if I were to say God created science so that there would be a purpose for our brain? Everything happens according to science, in turn, according to God.

[dead_juggalo]

I was a Christian but then I started thinking, I am agnostic, that the bible does not prove that it's true. I have been agnostic for 5 years now, since i was 11. I don't not believe in god but I also don't. I think there is a very good possibility of it but I don't think so.

[FictionJunction]

Originally Posted by staticwolf

Everything happens according to science, in turn, according to God.

That's what I'd like to think.
But, then again, after what Reach posted about something being greater than God.. I'd have to rethink that.

[FictionJunction]

Originally Posted by dead_juggalo

I was a Christian but then I started thinking, I am agnostic, that the bible does not prove that it's true. I have been agnostic for 5 years now, since i was 11. I don't not believe in god but I also don't. I think there is a very good possibility of it but I don't think so.

1) People at 11 years of age don't generally have enough reasoning to state what they'd like to believe. They blindly follow whatever is presented to them, much like all devout Catholics and <insert other religions here>.

2) "I don't not believe in god but I also don't."
You, sir, do not make sense.

3) You also can't add.

[staticwolf]

Originally Posted by Reach

Yea but you're contradicting yourself.

And this god would also have to be the result of an action.

If God created the universe than something created God and thus something even greater than God must exist.

I wasn't really contradicting myself, Reach. I did mention it being a domino effect. For the domino effect to work, somebody has to push the first domino for the rest to topple.

Otherwise, we'd have to think that there was never a beginning for the universe. Kind of like the number scale where the numbers run infinite in both positives and negatives.

In the case of the universe, it's not proven that there was no beginning and that there won't be an end. Until then, it is safe to assume that the universe did begin somewhere.

It is safe to assume that only a being as powerful as God (read domino toppler) could create/begin something where there was initially nothing. This is where everything would begin. Where action, cause and effect would begin. Where science would begin. Where our thought and perception would begin. Accepting God's existence won't mean rejecting science.

[FictionJunction]

Originally Posted by staticwolf

I wasn't really contradicting myself, Reach. I did mention it being a domino effect. For the domino effect to work, somebody has to push the first domino for the rest to topple.

Otherwise, we'd have to think that there was never a beginning for the universe. Kind of like the number scale where the numbers run infinite in both positives and negatives.

In the case of the universe, it's not proven that there was no beginning and that there won't be an end. Until then, it is safe to assume that the universe did begin somewhere.

It is safe to assume that only a being as powerful as God (read domino toppler) could create/begin something where there was initially nothing. This is where everything would begin. Where action, cause and effect would begin. Where science would begin. Where our thought and perception would begin. Accepting God's existence won't mean rejecting science.

The whole point is the fact that we do not know if a God was the one who pushed the first domino.