Interesting indeed

[Anticrombie0909]

I don't believe in heaven or hell. I believe that when you die, your brain stops working, you're done. Gone. If you think about it, there's no logical reason for you to have a 'soul' or whatever you want to call it.

[makaveli121212]

Originally Posted by 87x

1) I don't remember is saying anything about being "perfect" for adam and eve... i just remember they were naked.. then ate some fruit because the snake with legs (iguana) told them too.. so after they did god told them they had to wear clothes and then took the snakes legs away from him so he would have to slither on his stomach everywhere for the rest of time..

2) Well... i was talking about in his own image as in appearance... and another thing on that.. why are there black/asain/indians/whites and everyother ethnic group i left out... "made in his apperance" indians and blacks don't look the same.... neither do asains and whites.. unless they are talking about physical body structure.. but then there would be a problem with the midgets and/or anyone else that an apperance altering disease..

3) Overpredation??.. you would think god would know how to balance out the ecosystems a little better...

4) Yea.. well heres my best guess... follow the chart
Amino acids -> DNA -> Single Celled -> Multi Cellular (sp?) -> Plants
^---> Single Celled ^--> Animals -V
V---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
V->Fish -> fish
V->Amphibious Bugs -> Regular Bugs
>->Amphibians -> Reptiles
^->Dynapsids -> Gators/Lizards
- ^->Dinosaurs -> Birds
-->Synapsids ->Mammals -> Great Apes -> Prime Apes -> Humans

Yea.. im sure yall can figure that out.. Evolution baby.. the reason we are here today..

5) I take comfort knowing that when i die, well.. i dont know what will happen.. people say that when you die your brain stire fires its nerve pulses for 15 seconds.. and while sleeping you know that 15 secs can seem like an eternity.. so thats probably the reviewing of there life sensation people always talk about getting right before they die or think they are about to die or come back from the dead
(no im not talking about zombies, im talking about when you flat line for like 10 seconds.. then come back).. but i can't really say whats comming for me in death, because the more you think about the more confused you get... try it..

ok here i go...

1) yes actually things were perfect, there was no death or disease and there was no sin...yet, until they ate the fruit...then common feelings like shame (nakedness) and so on came to be

2) i think humans look more like god than a owl...i think thats the point...the bible isnt always to be taken literally, especially the old testament...if god were human, which he was, he would be a primate, homsapien

3) God knows everything

4) ok, well thats is all based on theory...amino acids cannot just form DNA, plus the first genetic material on the planet was RNA, becuase it is so much more simple...and DNA cant just make cells

5) only if you try it first

btw i do not consider my self a very religous person, so matbe im worng on some of those issues, but i answered to the best of my knowledge

[Lupin_the_3rd]

I myself consider a majority of the old testament bs, however:

Can you prove that god doesn't exist in any way?no
Can you prove that god does exist in any way?no
could god have set up the world like a clock (age of reason) and let it tick and step away? yes

[VxDx]

Here's the thing...I'm agnostic. I don't believe a god if there was one would be able to be proven or disproven. As such, I live my life as though there were no god. The problem with the arguement either for or against god is that by the other-worldly nature of god himself, no worldly proof against him can be used. Being human, the only disproof of god would be inherantly worldly. The same goes for any proof of god's existance. Here's an example.

If god is the creator, then what created god?
God existed and will exist forever.
But that is impossible.
God is not based in the rules of this world (hahaha sounds like the matrix).


Personally, the best disproof of a god that I can offer is that people having free will and god being omniscient together are a juxtaposition.

[Lupin_the_3rd]

Originally Posted by VxDx

Here's the thing...I'm agnostic. I don't believe a god if there was one would be able to be proven or disproven. As such, I live my life as though there were no god. The problem with the arguement either for or against god is that by the other-worldly nature of god himself, no worldly proof against him can be used. Being human, the only disproof of god would be inherantly worldly. The same goes for any proof of god's existance. Here's an example.

If god is the creator, then what created god?
God existed and will exist forever.
But that is impossible.
God is not based in the rules of this world (hahaha sounds like the matrix).


Personally, the best disproof of a god that I can offer is that people having free will and god being omniscient together are a juxtaposition.

the Matrix is one of the most religous based movies (if you are sophisticated enough to interpret it)

[hydrojakep]

you people are all so smart

[Anticrombie0909]

See, the hardest part about debating the existance of god is that the method for the debates cancel each other out. If you follow the scientific route, evidence shows that there is no god. But try to point this out to one who believes, and they will tell you Faith is all that god needs to function.

Another amusing quote that The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy has to say on the subject (while incorporating the subject of the Babel fish, a fish that translates all languages when inserted into the ear...don't ask, pay attention to the bolded bit).

The Babel fish, is small yellow and leechlike, and probably the oddest thing in the Universe. It feeds on brainwave energy recieved not from its own carrier but from those around it...The speech patterns you actually hear decode the brainwave matrix which has been fed into your mind by your Babel fish.
Now, it is such a bizarrely improbably coincidence that anything so mind-bogglingly useful could have evolved purely by chance that some thinkers have chosen to see it as a final and clinching proof of the nonexistance of God. The argument goes something like this: "I refuse to prove that I exist," says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith, I am nothing." "But," says Man, "The Babel fish is a dead givaway, isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. QED. "Oh dear," says God, "I hadn't thought of that." And promptly vanishes in a puff of logic. "Oh, that was easy." Says Man and for an encore goes on to prove that black is white and gets himself killed on the next zebra crossing.

Again, its all for comedic effect, but still...

Damn, whoever would have thought such a thinker would come from a radio comedy show turned book?

[Strange_Will]

well tempature depends i mean, on this planet animals can live from like -whatever tempature polarbears live in to the +100 that snakes live in.....

why cant they be evolved for a 200 degree difference?

i mean we dont have proof you cant....

really somewhere there has to be life, just somewhere, why would we get the universe to ourselves....

even plants, not just other living breating creatures.....

[jewpinthethird]

Neither religion, nor Science is perfect. We can all agree on that. Both take a create deal of faith.

[Cenright]

This is why I tried to keep religion out of it.

We can all debate religion and no one is going to concede without a whole lot of biblical talk. Even then you might not get anywhere. For scientific theories, you need to use science only, because not everyone belives the bible to be a reliable source, and there are many interpretations of it. Whether those be wrong or right, you still have trouble arguing against it. I am a very religous person, but the way I see the bible is very different than more other people.

Try to keep it to science only please, because you wont get very far with the bible.

[Moogy]

http://babelfish.altavista.com


















wee

[Cenright]

Yeah I have seen that.

[jewpinthethird]

I know, I should have not allowed it...my bad. Anyways, this belongs in the new forum. W00t.

[Lupin_the_3rd]

whoa crazy, critical thinking forum

[VxDx]

I don't know that making a new forum for this was the best idea. I know I will be less inclined to read something in the critical thinking forum...

[scorpio1690]

Originally Posted by Moogy

http://babelfish.altavista.com


















wee

I use that for my french homework.

But, I seriously think that either everything in the bible really happened, OR someone was on something seriously fucked up.

How would it be that science is not perfect? Humans created science to explain what we did not know right? So basically, it was all in vain?

Religion. Now that we're allowed to discuss this, why are we only discussing the christianic version of how we all came to be? I mean... Hmmmm... If it really was just this one "God" that created us, why are their other religions? If the belief is so strong then why doesn't everyone believe? So... Well, in my mind I've just ruled out religion, unless they all rooted together some how.

So back to the infinite topic. I know that no one can fully comprehend this, but.... If there really was another planet infinite lightyears away, and we were thinking about it, would we really be thinking about that planet? Hmmm... It's really hard to explain what I'm thinking on a fucking forum.... Ummm.... K, think if there IS another planet out there somewhere with life right? Now, if we think about it, would we really be thinking about it in the present? I mean, do thoughts travel at a speed in your mind? So are we like... Really thinking what we think we're thinking?

Ok.... I couldn't really explain what I was thinking about.... But if you can understand what I was trying to say please respond...

[IAMTHEEVILBEAN]

Originally Posted by scorpio1690

I use that for my french homework.

But, I seriously think that either everything in the bible really happened, OR someone was on something seriously #$*#ed up.

How would it be that science is not perfect? Humans created science to explain what we did not know right? So basically, it was all in vain?

Religion. Now that we're allowed to discuss this, why are we only discussing the christianic version of how we all came to be? I mean... Hmmmm... If it really was just this one "God" that created us, why are their other religions? If the belief is so strong then why doesn't everyone believe? So... Well, in my mind I've just ruled out religion, unless they all rooted together some how.

So back to the infinite topic. I know that no one can fully comprehend this, but.... If there really was another planet infinite lightyears away, and we were thinking about it, would we really be thinking about that planet? Hmmm... It's really hard to explain what I'm thinking on a #$#ing forum.... Ummm.... K, think if there IS another planet out there somewhere with life right? Now, if we think about it, would we really be thinking about it in the present? I mean, do thoughts travel at a speed in your mind? So are we like... Really thinking what we think we're thinking?

Ok.... I couldn't really explain what I was thinking about.... But if you can understand what I was trying to say please respond...

Make a religion thread if you want people to respond

[Anticrombie0909]

Not really, bean. This thread...didn't start out to be religion, but its all about how the universe was created, so it kinda has to be. Anyway, this topic includes religious discussion, so yeah.

Ummm.... K, think if there IS another planet out there somewhere with life right? Now, if we think about it, would we really be thinking about it in the present? I mean, do thoughts travel at a speed in your mind? So are we like... Really thinking what we think we're thinking?

Well, thanks for telling us what you mean. It'd have been really annoying if you were ambiguous about it.
Heh, I get what you're saying. But at the same time...I don't really. Thoughts arn't transmitted through space, they're just in our own heads. So how could that apply to infinite worlds? You need to read Ender's Game.

[Falcon]

well, lemme give a few of these a shot.

Originally Posted by 87x

Yea.. well heres my best guess... follow the chart
Amino acids -> DNA -> Single Celled -> Multi Cellular (sp?) -> Plants
^---> Single Celled ^--> Animals -V
V---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
V->Fish -> fish
V->Amphibious Bugs -> Regular Bugs
>->Amphibians -> Reptiles
^->Dynapsids -> Gators/Lizards
- ^->Dinosaurs -> Birds
-->Synapsids ->Mammals -> Great Apes -> Prime Apes -> Humans

Yea.. im sure yall can figure that out.. Evolution baby.. the reason we are here today..

as far as the early stages of evolution and the creation of amino acids... this has never been duplicated, which is a pivotal part of proving a scientific theory. there was a scientist who attempted this (if dont remember his name) and who actually got amino acids to be produced. however, the amino acids that were produced were dead amino acids, meaning that they are unable to produce life. and these were under the exact conditions of early earth.

Originally Posted by vxdx

Personally, the best disproof of a god that I can offer is that people having free will and god being omniscient together are a juxtaposition.

free will and omniscience are two things that alot of people, especially christians, misunderstand. as i understand it, humans do have free will. we make our own decisions, we choose the good or the bad choice in each situation, etc... but God knows what we will choose in the end and how things will turn out. however, he doesnt control it. he simply knows about it. confusing? yes.

Originally Posted by lupin

the Matrix is one of the most religous based movies (if you are sophisticated enough to interpret it)

the matrix was a conglomeration of a whole bunch of different religions (christianity, buddhism, hinduism, etc). very deep movie, actually. at least the first one...

Originally Posted by anticrombie's book

The argument goes something like this: "I refuse to prove that I exist," says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith, I am nothing." "But," says Man, "The Babel fish is a dead givaway, isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. QED. "Oh dear," says God, "I hadn't thought of that." And promptly vanishes in a puff of logic.

its not so much that God refuses to show us that he exists. in fact, i'd say there is a good amount of evidence that shows that God does exist, your babel fish for example. again, back to the free will thing, we would not have free will if God came out and said "I AM GOD. WORSHIP ME." he gives us the free choice to observe everything around us, weigh the options, and make our own decisions. i see this babel fish, as well as other examples, as proof that God exists rather than a disproof.

Originally Posted by scorpip

Religion. Now that we're allowed to discuss this, why are we only discussing the christianic version of how we all came to be? I mean... Hmmmm... If it really was just this one "God" that created us, why are their other religions? If the belief is so strong then why doesn't everyone believe? So... Well, in my mind I've just ruled out religion, unless they all rooted together some how.

i hate to keep reverting to this free will thing... but thats part of it. also, as humans, we ourselves often take things that we like about something, twist them a little, and make our own version that we like. thats how alot of religions have started... the angelican (i THINK, whichever church it was that the king of england decided to make because he was pissed about not being able to divorce his wife) for example. this is a whole different discussion... maybe i'll do this later.

[87x]

Originally Posted by Falcon

as humans, we ourselves often take things that we like about something, twist them a little, and make our own version that we like. thats how alot of religions have started

Hince. christianity.. but it didn't come from other religions.. it came from a conglameration of childen stories used to easily describe how things came to be.. and gives us a reason not to act like shit heads our whole life, because it puts fear in our heart about the after life (if there is one)

Originally Posted by Falcon

there was a scientist who attempted this (if dont remember his name) and who actually got amino acids to be produced. however, the amino acids that were produced were dead amino acids, meaning that they are unable to produce life. and these were under the exact conditions of early earth.

This experiment was done over a life time of work (lets give it 70 years although it wasn;t nearly that long).. the earth had over 4 billion years to get it right.. im positive that it was able to creat living Amino acids..

[quote="makaveli121212"]

Originally Posted by Falcon

as humans, we ourselves often take things that we like about something, twist them a little, and make our own version that we like. thats how alot of religions have started

Hince. christianity.. but it didn't come from other religions.. it came from a conglameration of childen stories used to easily describe how things came to be.. and gives us a reason not to act like shit heads our whole life, because it puts fear in our heart about the after life (if there is one)

Originally Posted by Falcon

there was a scientist who attempted this (if dont remember his name) and who actually got amino acids to be produced. however, the amino acids that were produced were dead amino acids, meaning that they are unable to produce life. and these were under the exact conditions of early earth.

This experiment was done over a life time of work (lets give it 70 years although it wasn;t nearly that long).. the earth had over 4 billion years to get it right.. im positive that it was able to creat living Amino acids..

[quote="makaveli121212"]

Originally Posted by Falcon

as humans, we ourselves often take things that we like about something, twist them a little, and make our own version that we like. thats how alot of religions have started

Hince. christianity.. but it didn't come from other religions.. it came from a conglameration of childen stories used to easily describe how things came to be.. and gives us a reason not to act like shit heads our whole life, because it puts fear in our heart about the after life (if there is one)

Originally Posted by Falcon

there was a scientist who attempted this (if dont remember his name) and who actually got amino acids to be produced. however, the amino acids that were produced were dead amino acids, meaning that they are unable to produce life. and these were under the exact conditions of early earth.

This experiment was done over a life time of work (lets give it 70 years although it wasn;t nearly that long).. the earth had over 4 billion years to get it right.. im positive that it was able to creat living Amino acids..

Originally Posted by makaveli121212

1) yes actually things were perfect, there was no death or disease and there was no sin...yet, until they ate the fruit...then common feelings like shame (nakedness) and so on came to be

There is no "proof" in bible or in science to say that.. also... they ate the fruit the first day of being creates )as i remember) of course there was no death or disease yet.. but if they hadn't of ate the fruit would life today be perfect? people not being abel to get disease?? no sin.. i doubt it.. and this is all based on the assumption that this all actually happened..

Originally Posted by makaveli121212

amino acids cannot just form DNA, plus the first genetic material on the planet was RNA, becuase it is so much more simple...and DNA cant just make cells

no matter which is formed first, over time they both would of been present.. the amino acids are the building blocks of DNA.. so if two amino acids were to come together somehow yo would have a trait.. something VERY simple.. but a trait.. which would form into a cell.. which takes you to single celled organisms... add the mutation and adaptation theory's and you have evolution..

Side comments:
I agree argueing about this is trivial.. but i don't consider this an arguement.. im not trying to pursuade anyone to just over to the evolution side of the line.. and i hope no one is trying to do that vice versa.. im just saying what i think... people contradict me with other beliefs.. so i reitterate on my beliefs with more examples and more logic behind the thoughts.. so i can talk/read about this all day and not get bored, because i love hearing what people have to say about where they came from..